Vigil (BBC)

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woozel
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#666

Post by woozel »

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment ... ar-AAOCeOp
Filming the scene where Doward attacks Silva was “very exciting”, he says. “It was great to have a big mask-off reveal. It was a violent moment for my character. He’s been in the background, very quiet, very polite, and so for him to suddenly burst into the action like that was quite exciting. It just gets even better in episode six. It doesn’t get any easier for Suranne.

That makes it sound as though Silva survives episode five? “I can’t say anything else!” he says, laughing.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#667

Post by Guest »

woozel wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 09:58
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment ... ar-AAOCeOp
Filming the scene where Doward attacks Silva was “very exciting”, he says. “It was great to have a big mask-off reveal. It was a violent moment for my character. He’s been in the background, very quiet, very polite, and so for him to suddenly burst into the action like that was quite exciting. It just gets even better in episode six. It doesn’t get any easier for Suranne.

That makes it sound as though Silva survives episode five? “I can’t say anything else!” he says, laughing.
Thanks for this :hug:

Honestly, I'm fed up with this cat-and-mouse game being played out involving lesbians. Everything about us is portrayed as drama and tragedy. I hope it's a happy ending for Amy and Kirsten. If not, I'll enjoy seeing the criticisms rolling in from the gay community. Because actors, writers and directors hate even the suggestion that they're homophobic.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#668

Post by Guest »

Am I the only one who didn't think about whether she'd survive episode 5, because it's a foregone conclusion. The lead whose setting only works if she's present. There is still one more hour of TV left and we have to see what plays out on the sub so why would she die? Anyway, my mind is more at how they'll wrap it all up.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#669

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 11:39
Am I the only one who didn't think about whether she'd survive episode 5, because it's a foregone conclusion. The lead whose setting only works if she's present. There is still one more hour of TV left and we have to see what plays out on the sub so why would she die? Anyway, my mind is more at how they'll wrap it all up.
I want to side with this argument, but then I remember they got Martin Compston to die five minutes into the show and then spend the rest of it in a torpedo tube. That's weird enough to at least consider the possibility this isn't a cut and dry ending where the lead is concerned. I do expect she lives, and that it will probably be very contrived to say the least, but I'm not completely ruling out that she might not.

I expected Burke to be the person Ingles met with. I expected Burke's tapes to have been a feature by now. Because surely a character being played by someone like MC has to play a bigger active role that he has so far. If he doesn't come back into the narrative properly, then it's going to be a funny move. Kind of like a reverse James Nesbitt with LoD series 6 only this time 'James Nesbitt' actually turns up for a cameo as more than a photograph.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#670

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 11:55
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 11:39
Am I the only one who didn't think about whether she'd survive episode 5, because it's a foregone conclusion. The lead whose setting only works if she's present. There is still one more hour of TV left and we have to see what plays out on the sub so why would she die? Anyway, my mind is more at how they'll wrap it all up.
I want to side with this argument, but then I remember they got Martin Compston to die five minutes into the show and then spend the rest of it in a torpedo tube. That's weird enough to at least consider the possibility this isn't a cut and dry ending where the lead is concerned. I do expect she lives, and that it will probably be very contrived to say the least, but I'm not completely ruling out that she might not.

I expected Burke to be the person Ingles met with. I expected Burke's tapes to have been a feature by now. Because surely a character being played by someone like MC has to play a bigger active role that he has so far. If he doesn't come back into the narrative properly, then it's going to be a funny move. Kind of like a reverse James Nesbitt with LoD series 6 only this time 'James Nesbitt' actually turns up for a cameo as more than a photograph.
I'm not British, so I don't know martin compston. But surly the character whose death begins the investigation is not the same as the detective investigating it? Going back to the submarine would be weird if Amy dies in the first few minutes of episode 6. What character do we follow it Amy dies? Who'd be the audiences eyes?

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#671

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 11:39
Am I the only one who didn't think about whether she'd survive episode 5, because it's a foregone conclusion. The lead whose setting only works if she's present. There is still one more hour of TV left and we have to see what plays out on the sub so why would she die? Anyway, my mind is more at how they'll wrap it all up.
x10000

Of course she'll survive.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#672

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 11:39
Am I the only one who didn't think about whether she'd survive episode 5, because it's a foregone conclusion. The lead whose setting only works if she's present. There is still one more hour of TV left and we have to see what plays out on the sub so why would she die? Anyway, my mind is more at how they'll wrap it all up.
Yes, it's perfectly obvious, given the story they are telling, that she is going to survive, just like it was obvious after seeing the car crash scene that she was going to end up in the water again, and it was obvious that the Russians would be involved based on Burke's symptoms.

But I'm loving how the relationship is playing out. I think some of Kirsten's tears were because she was realising that Amy was right, it wasn't all about her. And she's the one who walked out, and now she doesn't even know if Amy is coming back and if she's just been lying to Poppy.

It's her turn to apologise when Amy comes back.

I presume if you clang SOS loudly enough in a missile tube the headphones operators hear it and someone gets sent to haul her out and revive her. Icy cold water will be an advantage there - slows the breathing and the brain damage: "they're not dead until they're warm and dead".

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#673

Post by Guest »

It sucks that the actors are great and giving their most but the writing is just not hitting. Both for the above ground police case and the rl. It's like they have ot fit in so much there's not enough time for either.

Jaimee
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#674

Post by Jaimee »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 09:14
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 23:42
Image
Image
Image
This scene started really hot, specially cos they both had their legs open LOL. And then they started arguing and it really pissed me off.
Nice scene, although I could only make out Amy's legs and not Kirsten's legs.

Dizz
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Joined: 06 Jan 2019, 14:04

Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#675

Post by Dizz »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 10:41
woozel wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 09:58
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment ... ar-AAOCeOp
Filming the scene where Doward attacks Silva was “very exciting”, he says. “It was great to have a big mask-off reveal. It was a violent moment for my character. He’s been in the background, very quiet, very polite, and so for him to suddenly burst into the action like that was quite exciting. It just gets even better in episode six. It doesn’t get any easier for Suranne.

That makes it sound as though Silva survives episode five? “I can’t say anything else!” he says, laughing.
Thanks for this :hug:

Honestly, I'm fed up with this cat-and-mouse game being played out involving lesbians. Everything about us is portrayed as drama and tragedy. I hope it's a happy ending for Amy and Kirsten. If not, I'll enjoy seeing the criticisms rolling in from the gay community. Because actors, writers and directors hate even the suggestion that they're homophobic.
I saw a write up of the episode saying that the show had to end with Amy & Kristen parenting Poppy in jumpers from Boden :lol:
:mask:

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#676

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:16
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
You sound straight or just old.
DA. Whew, what an argument you made there, really got your point through :eyeroll:

This line of thinking that no lesbian/bisexual characters should die ever and that it's homophobic to have anything but a peachy end for lesbian/bisexual characters is so reductive and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of representation. The question you wanna ask yourself is: would the same thing happen to a straight character? And I think there's little doubt that Amy's experience on Vigil had been the same even if Kirsten had been Christian.

I don't think Amy should die but fuck's sake, if she does, please stop pretending it'll have anything to do with her sexual orientation. Keeley Hawes' character in Bodyguard was as straight as they come and she was killed off in episode 3 or something like that. It's a suspense drama, what did you expect?

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#677

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:36
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:16
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
You sound straight or just old.
DA. Whew, what an argument you made there, really got your point through :eyeroll:

This line of thinking that no lesbian/bisexual characters should die ever and that it's homophobic to have anything but a peachy end for lesbian/bisexual characters is so reductive and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of representation. The question you wanna ask yourself is: would the same thing happen to a straight character? And I think there's little doubt that Amy's experience on Vigil had been the same even if Kirsten had been Christian.

I don't think Amy should die but fuck's sake, if she does, please stop pretending it'll have anything to do with her sexual orientation. Keeley Hawes' character in Bodyguard was as straight as they come and she was killed off in episode 3 or something like that. It's a suspense drama, what did you expect?
So, straight or old?

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#678

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:42
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:36
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:16
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
You sound straight or just old.
DA. Whew, what an argument you made there, really got your point through :eyeroll:

This line of thinking that no lesbian/bisexual characters should die ever and that it's homophobic to have anything but a peachy end for lesbian/bisexual characters is so reductive and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of representation. The question you wanna ask yourself is: would the same thing happen to a straight character? And I think there's little doubt that Amy's experience on Vigil had been the same even if Kirsten had been Christian.

I don't think Amy should die but fuck's sake, if she does, please stop pretending it'll have anything to do with her sexual orientation. Keeley Hawes' character in Bodyguard was as straight as they come and she was killed off in episode 3 or something like that. It's a suspense drama, what did you expect?
So, straight or old?
Lesbian and 26. Your point was?

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#679

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:36
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:16
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
You sound straight or just old.
DA. Whew, what an argument you made there, really got your point through :eyeroll:

This line of thinking that no lesbian/bisexual characters should die ever and that it's homophobic to have anything but a peachy end for lesbian/bisexual characters is so reductive and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of representation. The question you wanna ask yourself is: would the same thing happen to a straight character? And I think there's little doubt that Amy's experience on Vigil had been the same even if Kirsten had been Christian.

I don't think Amy should die but fuck's sake, if she does, please stop pretending it'll have anything to do with her sexual orientation. Keeley Hawes' character in Bodyguard was as straight as they come and she was killed off in episode 3 or something like that. It's a suspense drama, what did you expect?
DA When the BBC have an f/f couple fronting all of their prime time dramas, I'll stoping caring if a lesbian dies every now and then because I'll still get my fill of happy ending from another show. But until the BBC start being so generous, I'll ask that they don't kill any off.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#680

Post by Guest »

I can't believe someone's butthurt because "I don't want the lesbian to die" is the consensus opinion. "DA" lol

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#681

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:56
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:42
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:36
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:16
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
You sound straight or just old.
DA. Whew, what an argument you made there, really got your point through :eyeroll:

This line of thinking that no lesbian/bisexual characters should die ever and that it's homophobic to have anything but a peachy end for lesbian/bisexual characters is so reductive and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of representation. The question you wanna ask yourself is: would the same thing happen to a straight character? And I think there's little doubt that Amy's experience on Vigil had been the same even if Kirsten had been Christian.

I don't think Amy should die but fuck's sake, if she does, please stop pretending it'll have anything to do with her sexual orientation. Keeley Hawes' character in Bodyguard was as straight as they come and she was killed off in episode 3 or something like that. It's a suspense drama, what did you expect?
So, straight or old?
Lesbian and 26. Your point was?
My point was, surely somebody who thinks so shallowly of representation and only of visibility without context must not be one of us. As if the death of Amy wouldn't kill literally half of ALL LGBT people on this show, which is not matched by the act of killing off a straight lead, because every single person we see on Vigil aside from Amy and Kirsten is assumed straight, every single Navy personnel, every single protester in that camp, Poppy and her grandparents, every MI5 agent, every politician, every Russian spy, every other person is assumed straight. THAT is how representation works.

There is a default and unless it's specifically contradicted, the default remains. That is not how reality is, but it's how representation in our current society works. That is why LGBT positive people celebrate the existence of Amy and Kirsten and why the homophobes don't. Neither side thinks, oh, that particular Navy officer hasn't had their sexuality mentioned on screen, they could be straight OR gay. This is the reality and you know it.

Did the death of Keeley Hawes' character then cascade into an onscreen massacre that killed 50% of the rest of the entire cast of Bodyguard that we saw? No? Then you must be fucking straight or dumb to not understand something that simple.

soccergrl
Member
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Joined: 06 Jan 2019, 17:52

Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#682

Post by soccergrl »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 12:28
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 11:39
Am I the only one who didn't think about whether she'd survive episode 5, because it's a foregone conclusion. The lead whose setting only works if she's present. There is still one more hour of TV left and we have to see what plays out on the sub so why would she die? Anyway, my mind is more at how they'll wrap it all up.
Yes, it's perfectly obvious, given the story they are telling, that she is going to survive, just like it was obvious after seeing the car crash scene that she was going to end up in the water again, and it was obvious that the Russians would be involved based on Burke's symptoms.

But I'm loving how the relationship is playing out. I think some of Kirsten's tears were because she was realising that Amy was right, it wasn't all about her. And she's the one who walked out, and now she doesn't even know if Amy is coming back and if she's just been lying to Poppy.

It's her turn to apologise when Amy comes back.

I presume if you clang SOS loudly enough in a missile tube the headphones operators hear it and someone gets sent to haul her out and revive her. Icy cold water will be an advantage there - slows the breathing and the brain damage: "they're not dead until they're warm and dead".
DA I agree with this and OP, I don't think she's going to die. Among other things that you listed, there was an article (I think an article) posted here that talked about a possible season 2. Not a spinoff, but a season 2. How can you have another season if your whole point of the show is dead. The entire story revolves around her character with both the investigation and her personal life/reflection. I do think that we may see some suspended reality if you're the one technical anon who has a lot of knowledge about subs and cold water but I think she'll live and 🤞 they'll get back together by the end of the season.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#683

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 17:36
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:16
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
You sound straight or just old.
DA. Whew, what an argument you made there, really got your point through :eyeroll:

This line of thinking that no lesbian/bisexual characters should die ever and that it's homophobic to have anything but a peachy end for lesbian/bisexual characters is so reductive and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of representation. The question you wanna ask yourself is: would the same thing happen to a straight character? And I think there's little doubt that Amy's experience on Vigil had been the same even if Kirsten had been Christian.

I don't think Amy should die but fuck's sake, if she does, please stop pretending it'll have anything to do with her sexual orientation. Keeley Hawes' character in Bodyguard was as straight as they come and she was killed off in episode 3 or something like that. It's a suspense drama, what did you expect?
Dear god thank you for backing me up. I’m the one these girls initially called “straight or old” lmao. I’m 25! What you said was exactly what I was getting at as well. It’s absurd to insist that it’s anti-gay if a lesbian character dies. We all die irl, lesbians aren’t immortal. I just don’t get it personally. Though it’s hard to find people who will respectfully disagree on here without calling each other trolls or whatever.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#684

Post by Guest »

The scene of Kris in the car crying...sense of guilt? Regret? How did you interpret it?

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#685

Post by Guest »

Worry, because her not-girlfriend is on a missing submarine with a Russian saboteur?

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#686

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:34
The scene of Kris in the car crying...sense of guilt? Regret? How did you interpret it?
I think it’s largely tears of realization. Of understanding. So, I’d say regret and sorrow that, in hindsight, she’s been often in the wrong with her pushing, her anger. Also, of course, it says that she still loves Amy. (Amy’s not off the hook, either. Girl, open up a bit, yes?)

First realization is that Amy was not ashamed of her. Poppy knew her, the grandparents thought of her as Amy’s partner. She *has been introduced*, she was just not present when it happened.

Second realization is, as the anon above said, that it is not all about her. Amy has been focused on balancing grief, depression, trying to get Poppy back, and her. And what matters here is that Kirsten realizes that all the roads were leading to her, that while it’s not about her NOW, it would’ve been later, if she’d given Amy more time to fully sort herself out. That she was very much at the centre of Amy’s plans for the future.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#687

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:56
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:34
The scene of Kris in the car crying...sense of guilt? Regret? How did you interpret it?
I think it’s largely tears of realization. Of understanding. So, I’d say regret and sorrow that, in hindsight, she’s been often in the wrong with her pushing, her anger. Also, of course, it says that she still loves Amy. (Amy’s not off the hook, either. Girl, open up a bit, yes?)

First realization is that Amy was not ashamed of her. Poppy knew her, the grandparents thought of her as Amy’s partner. She *has been introduced*, she was just not present when it happened.

Second realization is, as the anon above said, that it is not all about her. Amy has been focused on balancing grief, depression, trying to get Poppy back, and her. And what matters here is that Kirsten realizes that all the roads were leading to her, that while it’s not about her NOW, it would’ve been later, if she’d given Amy more time to fully sort herself out. That she was very much at the centre of Amy’s plans for the future.
DA I'm interested in this discussion and while I agree with the first half, what did Kirsten see with Poppy and the grandparents to make her realize that all roads were leading to her and that she was in Amy's plans for the future?

Guest
Reactions:

Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#688

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 22:00
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:56
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:34
The scene of Kris in the car crying...sense of guilt? Regret? How did you interpret it?
I think it’s largely tears of realization. Of understanding. So, I’d say regret and sorrow that, in hindsight, she’s been often in the wrong with her pushing, her anger. Also, of course, it says that she still loves Amy. (Amy’s not off the hook, either. Girl, open up a bit, yes?)

First realization is that Amy was not ashamed of her. Poppy knew her, the grandparents thought of her as Amy’s partner. She *has been introduced*, she was just not present when it happened.

Second realization is, as the anon above said, that it is not all about her. Amy has been focused on balancing grief, depression, trying to get Poppy back, and her. And what matters here is that Kirsten realizes that all the roads were leading to her, that while it’s not about her NOW, it would’ve been later, if she’d given Amy more time to fully sort herself out. That she was very much at the centre of Amy’s plans for the future.
DA I'm interested in this discussion and while I agree with the first half, what did Kirsten see with Poppy and the grandparents to make her realize that all roads were leading to her and that she was in Amy's plans for the future?
As I interpreted what happened. What was on the cards, being negotiated, was joint custody of Poppy, between the grandparents and ~~Amy and her partner~~. The plan that Amy had set into motion, that she and her partner Kirsten would share custody with the grandparents is pretty much a marriage proposal 😜

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#689

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 22:06
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 22:00
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:56
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:34
The scene of Kris in the car crying...sense of guilt? Regret? How did you interpret it?
I think it’s largely tears of realization. Of understanding. So, I’d say regret and sorrow that, in hindsight, she’s been often in the wrong with her pushing, her anger. Also, of course, it says that she still loves Amy. (Amy’s not off the hook, either. Girl, open up a bit, yes?)

First realization is that Amy was not ashamed of her. Poppy knew her, the grandparents thought of her as Amy’s partner. She *has been introduced*, she was just not present when it happened.

Second realization is, as the anon above said, that it is not all about her. Amy has been focused on balancing grief, depression, trying to get Poppy back, and her. And what matters here is that Kirsten realizes that all the roads were leading to her, that while it’s not about her NOW, it would’ve been later, if she’d given Amy more time to fully sort herself out. That she was very much at the centre of Amy’s plans for the future.
DA I'm interested in this discussion and while I agree with the first half, what did Kirsten see with Poppy and the grandparents to make her realize that all roads were leading to her and that she was in Amy's plans for the future?
As I interpreted what happened. What was on the cards, being negotiated, was joint custody of Poppy, between the grandparents and ~~Amy and her partner~~. The plan that Amy had set into motion, that she and her partner Kirsten would share custody with the grandparents is pretty much a marriage proposal 😜
In fairness to Kirsten though, Amy was shit at communicating. From what little we've seen in the snippets I'm not sure how else Kirsten was supposed to think. It looked like they would have a plan to move forward in their relationship in some fashion and then Amy would get cold feet or at best extremely unenthusiastic. They were going to move in together, sounds like Amy was dragging her feet on that. Amy was going to introduce Poppy, drags her feet on that. Kirsten asks if she wants to go on a trip together, Amy was basically "Sure, whatever."

Kirsten isn't without fault either. She'd go into a tornado of anger and Amy would be left standing there wondering how her house is across the street while she was standing in the kitchen.

I think it was a culmination of all that. Wishing Amy would've opened up more to her. Wishing she didn't fly off and leave without talking. Missed opportunities while also dealing with the possibility that it might not be able to be fixed if they can't find the traitor on Vigil.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#690

Post by Guest »

I hope the grandmother suddenly dies and Poppy, Kirsten, and Amy live together and build an extension for nice old grandad to live in.

Guest
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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#691

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 22:06
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 22:00
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:56
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 21:34
The scene of Kris in the car crying...sense of guilt? Regret? How did you interpret it?
I think it’s largely tears of realization. Of understanding. So, I’d say regret and sorrow that, in hindsight, she’s been often in the wrong with her pushing, her anger. Also, of course, it says that she still loves Amy. (Amy’s not off the hook, either. Girl, open up a bit, yes?)

First realization is that Amy was not ashamed of her. Poppy knew her, the grandparents thought of her as Amy’s partner. She *has been introduced*, she was just not present when it happened.

Second realization is, as the anon above said, that it is not all about her. Amy has been focused on balancing grief, depression, trying to get Poppy back, and her. And what matters here is that Kirsten realizes that all the roads were leading to her, that while it’s not about her NOW, it would’ve been later, if she’d given Amy more time to fully sort herself out. That she was very much at the centre of Amy’s plans for the future.
DA I'm interested in this discussion and while I agree with the first half, what did Kirsten see with Poppy and the grandparents to make her realize that all roads were leading to her and that she was in Amy's plans for the future?
As I interpreted what happened. What was on the cards, being negotiated, was joint custody of Poppy, between the grandparents and ~~Amy and her partner~~. The plan that Amy had set into motion, that she and her partner Kirsten would share custody with the grandparents is pretty much a marriage proposal 😜
Oh, I see. I didn't interpret it that way because, well, if she was really including Kirsten in her plans she ought to have shared them with her. So while I'm sure Amy did love Kirsten enough to tell Poppy and the grandparents, her being included in the plans to them was more about convenience than her actually mentally or emotionally including her.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#692

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 12:28
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 11:39
Am I the only one who didn't think about whether she'd survive episode 5, because it's a foregone conclusion. The lead whose setting only works if she's present. There is still one more hour of TV left and we have to see what plays out on the sub so why would she die? Anyway, my mind is more at how they'll wrap it all up.
Yes, it's perfectly obvious, given the story they are telling, that she is going to survive, just like it was obvious after seeing the car crash scene that she was going to end up in the water again, and it was obvious that the Russians would be involved based on Burke's symptoms.

But I'm loving how the relationship is playing out. I think some of Kirsten's tears were because she was realising that Amy was right, it wasn't all about her. And she's the one who walked out, and now she doesn't even know if Amy is coming back and if she's just been lying to Poppy.

It's her turn to apologise when Amy comes back.

I presume if you clang SOS loudly enough in a missile tube the headphones operators hear it and someone gets sent to haul her out and revive her. Icy cold water will be an advantage there - slows the breathing and the brain damage: "they're not dead until they're warm and dead".
No. Radar doesn't operate to pick things up within it's own operating environment (in this case Vigil). It only operates to pick things up external to it. Although, they could suspend (as done multiple times already) reality so they do. But I think it's more likely, if she does bang on pipes that it'd be those outside the room who'd hear the banging further down the pipe and intervene.

But, reality, there are no pipes (the scene shows that) within the actual tube. It's just the inner walls of the tube. So, any banging she does would have to be against the inside wall of the tube and the water flooding it would dampen the noise. Also, it appears she's been removed of all stuff other than the dry suit (which has no pockets) she's wearing. So, she doesn't have anything hard to bang against anything anyway. Or, the suspend belief again and she managed to pull out a spanner from somewhere.

The Control/Command Room instruments would clearly show a tube was being flooded but they're expecting that. As that was the plan to eject the device. So, I don't see why they'd raise the alarm. Unless, he's flooding two tubes. That should have them questioning why two and not just one. That, if he's flooding two tubes, could have them radio down to those outside the door and that conversation could raise the alarm. Another, outside the door, is in a hazmat suit so could enter to find out what is going on.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#693

Post by Guest »

Kirsten's best moments are when she is calm, but she is always exasperated when the topic is her relationship. "We broke up!"

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#694

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 18:13
I can't believe someone's butthurt because "I don't want the lesbian to die" is the consensus opinion. "DA" lol
So are you dense, illiterate or is it a delightful mix? Can't speak for the other anon but I clearly said I don't want Amy to die. Only my unwillingness to see her dead has nothing to do with her sexuality and I think it's absurdly regressive to think her bisexuality, which has nothing to do with the situation that puts her life in danger, should be the sole reason she shouldn't die.

Not surprised you can't fathom that two posters independent of each other can share an opinion that differs from the majority's little echo chamber of reductive standards for lesbian/bisexual characters.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#695

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 18:32
My point was, surely somebody who thinks so shallowly of representation and only of visibility without context must not be one of us. As if the death of Amy wouldn't kill literally half of ALL LGBT people on this show, which is not matched by the act of killing off a straight lead, because every single person we see on Vigil aside from Amy and Kirsten is assumed straight, every single Navy personnel, every single protester in that camp, Poppy and her grandparents, every MI5 agent, every politician, every Russian spy, every other person is assumed straight. THAT is how representation works.

There is a default and unless it's specifically contradicted, the default remains. That is not how reality is, but it's how representation in our current society works. That is why LGBT positive people celebrate the existence of Amy and Kirsten and why the homophobes don't. Neither side thinks, oh, that particular Navy officer hasn't had their sexuality mentioned on screen, they could be straight OR gay. This is the reality and you know it.

Did the death of Keeley Hawes' character then cascade into an onscreen massacre that killed 50% of the rest of the entire cast of Bodyguard that we saw? No? Then you must be fucking straight or dumb to not understand something that simple.
I think shallowly of representation? Well, if that isn't the biggest fucking joke coming from someone with your childlike opinions on representation :lol: What you want doesn't even constitute as representation. What you want is the same storyline and the same outcome for every single LGBT+ character. It's reductive and it's boring as shit and frankly, if a happily ever after story is all you can cope with, maybe don't tune into a suspense drama?

I'll be as upset as the next girl if Amy is killed off but the reason I brought up Keeley Hawes and Bodyguard is that that's an example of how it isn't uncommon within the genre to kill off a main character for shock value regardless of their sexual orientation or gender (and to add to that: or race or religion) and if you can't accept that premise, you're in the wrong genre, mate. I think it's perfectly legitimate to have a discussion about representation and the bury your gays trope but it needs to be had within the context of the show. You can't cry for representation but then also want our characters to be treated radically different from every other character. That's not representation.

That's what I love about this series. Amy's sexuality is so normalised. The series doesn't waddle in the fact that she's bisexual, she's just on Vigil to do her job, what gets her into problems is her job and if she dies, it'll be because of the job she came there to do and it'll have nothing to do with her sexuality. The vast majority of the crew doesn't even know she's bisexual (just like we don't know of their sexual orientation) because it doesn't matter and the shit she's gotten into would've happened to her regardless of her sexual orientation.

Yes, assumed straight. You assume they're all straight when in reality we don't know because the others aren't main characters whose sexuality aren't elaborated on. That seems like a you problem.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#696

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 00:04
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 18:32
My point was, surely somebody who thinks so shallowly of representation and only of visibility without context must not be one of us. As if the death of Amy wouldn't kill literally half of ALL LGBT people on this show, which is not matched by the act of killing off a straight lead, because every single person we see on Vigil aside from Amy and Kirsten is assumed straight, every single Navy personnel, every single protester in that camp, Poppy and her grandparents, every MI5 agent, every politician, every Russian spy, every other person is assumed straight. THAT is how representation works.

There is a default and unless it's specifically contradicted, the default remains. That is not how reality is, but it's how representation in our current society works. That is why LGBT positive people celebrate the existence of Amy and Kirsten and why the homophobes don't. Neither side thinks, oh, that particular Navy officer hasn't had their sexuality mentioned on screen, they could be straight OR gay. This is the reality and you know it.

Did the death of Keeley Hawes' character then cascade into an onscreen massacre that killed 50% of the rest of the entire cast of Bodyguard that we saw? No? Then you must be fucking straight or dumb to not understand something that simple.
I think shallowly of representation? Well, if that isn't the biggest fucking joke coming from someone with your childlike opinions on representation :lol: What you want doesn't even constitute as representation. What you want is the same storyline and the same outcome for every single LGBT+ character. It's reductive and it's boring as shit and frankly, if a happily ever after story is all you can cope with, maybe don't tune into a suspense drama?

I'll be as upset as the next girl if Amy is killed off but the reason I brought up Keeley Hawes and Bodyguard is that that's an example of how it isn't uncommon within the genre to kill off a main character for shock value regardless of their sexual orientation or gender (and to add to that: or race or religion) and if you can't accept that premise, you're in the wrong genre, mate. I think it's perfectly legitimate to have a discussion about representation and the bury your gays trope but it needs to be had within the context of the show. You can't cry for representation but then also want our characters to be treated radically different from every other character. That's not representation.

That's what I love about this series. Amy's sexuality is so normalised. The series doesn't waddle in the fact that she's bisexual, she's just on Vigil to do her job, what gets her into problems is her job and if she dies, it'll be because of the job she came there to do and it'll have nothing to do with her sexuality. The vast majority of the crew doesn't even know she's bisexual (just like we don't know of their sexual orientation) because it doesn't matter and the shit she's gotten into would've happened to her regardless of her sexual orientation.

Yes, assumed straight. You assume they're all straight when in reality we don't know because the others aren't main characters whose sexuality aren't elaborated on. That seems like a you problem.
So you think that everyone else's sexuality not being specifically mentioned means they could be any and that's...positive rep? You see what I mean, you're not understanding the context at all. This is a fictional show, every line and look and frame is deliberate. The creators, the audience, everyone understands, and you do at heart, that unless it's specifically mentioned, it defaults to straight. Visibility and representation of marginalized underrepresented groups has to be done by inclusion. Not...nothingness.

I'm not sure what you mean about normalising Amy's sexuality. In their short time together, a big deal has been made both about her being attracted to women or not, and Kirsten asks if she's ashamed of them. What would be "waddling" in it?

The rest of the crew not knowing she's bisexual means what? That they didn't put her in this situation because she's bi? You misunderstand what BYG is if you think that's relevant. It's not just characters who're killed because they're facing bi/homophobia on screen. It's because of how they're a marginalized group in general and so many were killed off because of that. That's why it happened enough to become a trope, which is just a storytelling device. On screen, Lexa wasn't killed because she was gay. Neither was Tara in Buffy. Most badly received and condemned BYG deaths have nothing to do with discrimination on screen, it's about how they were treated off screen.

And frankly, some BYGs are actually not badly received by the fandom, this echo chamber, if you're trying to paint everyone as wanting the same thing only. Recently, the Bly and World to Come and I Care a Lot deaths, there were a bunch of lesbians who loved those media. In this case, though, Amy is not the Keeley Hawes character, she's Richard Madden, the main POV detective whose sympathetic backstory makes us root for them. A straight man in this position would not in fact be killed off because his story would not be complete.

You're not more rational or enlightened by bringing in what is by and large the whole world's view on this. When Lexa first died, yours was the very common reaction. It was only until 2016 brought in so many more BYGs (none related to homophobia or biphobia) that news journalists caught on and started reporting on the trend and trope. And even now, most viewers will agree with you. You're the one who's come to a lesbian board and are so sure you're right you'd rather argue with everyone else and thinks that somehow makes you more correct. We've already tried your viewpoint, we see it every single time these happen.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#697

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 00:04
I'll be as upset as the next girl if Amy is killed off but the reason I brought up Keeley Hawes and Bodyguard is that that's an example of how it isn't uncommon within the genre to kill off a main character for shock value regardless of their sexual orientation or gender (and to add to that: or race or religion) and if you can't accept that premise, you're in the wrong genre, mate. I think it's perfectly legitimate to have a discussion about representation and the bury your gays trope but it needs to be had within the context of the show. You can't cry for representation but then also want our characters to be treated radically different from every other character. That's not representation.

That's what I love about this series. Amy's sexuality is so normalised. The series doesn't waddle in the fact that she's bisexual, she's just on Vigil to do her job, what gets her into problems is her job and if she dies, it'll be because of the job she came there to do and it'll have nothing to do with her sexuality. The vast majority of the crew doesn't even know she's bisexual (just like we don't know of their sexual orientation) because it doesn't matter and the shit she's gotten into would've happened to her regardless of her sexual orientation.

Yes, assumed straight. You assume they're all straight when in reality we don't know because the others aren't main characters whose sexuality aren't elaborated on. That seems like a you problem.
I'd say it is uncommon to kill a main character, otherwise it wouldn't still have shock value.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#698

Post by Guest »

Aside from how rare the LGBT rep of Amy and Kirsten is on the show, the reason BYG is frowned at is because there's so little rep overall. I notice there are no counterarguments to those points, that there are so many straight characters that killing one of them has a negligible effect while killing LGBT will wipe off significant percentages. That doesn't seem like equal treatment to me.

The other part I'm puzzled by is that, for all that anybody here and on SM will complain about Amy's death if it happens, that's all that happens. There'll be nothing past the complaints. All we're voicing is what we think should or shouldn't happen because of what we think is unfair or isn't. We're not proposing a law or boycott. Nobody is even saying LGBT characters shouldn't be killed ever, just not till there's a more equitable distribution (though realistically most of us have shrugged at a death here or there), but if you don't want to hear that, you just don't have to be here. What's the point of staying among people you disagree with so fundamentally you'll insult them? Are their opinions so interesting otherwise? I'm sure there are many other places discussing Vigil. And well, if you want to read from a lesbian POV, maybe consider what that lesbian POV has to say about other matters.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#699

Post by Guest »

Apparently there is a song from the shows soundtrack titled 'A Kiss' and it hasn't been used yet. :hudoin:

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#700

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 00:02
Guest wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 18:13
I can't believe someone's butthurt because "I don't want the lesbian to die" is the consensus opinion. "DA" lol
So are you dense, illiterate or is it a delightful mix? Can't speak for the other anon but I clearly said I don't want Amy to die. Only my unwillingness to see her dead has nothing to do with her sexuality and I think it's absurdly regressive to think her bisexuality, which has nothing to do with the situation that puts her life in danger, should be the sole reason she shouldn't die.

Not surprised you can't fathom that two posters independent of each other can share an opinion that differs from the majority's little echo chamber of reductive standards for lesbian/bisexual characters.
Image

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#701

Post by Guest »

WTF is this thread 😂😂 between the anon who is trying to convince us that we should want lesbians to die off in movies/film and the freaking internal affairs of the navy who are fact checking the show, this is a wreck.

Reminds me of Amy, cannot communicate well, and frets about shit instead of telling Kirsten how much she loves her 🥰

Why are there no gifs of Amy standing around on her tank top, bra straps showing? I feel like we are failing the universe here, that I cannot find a single screen cap of that glorious, high brow, deeply meaningful, 100% plausible to happen in a sub, moment?? Anyone?? Amy in her tank top looking fierce?

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#702

Post by Guest »

More cute redhead female characters pls

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#703

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
I don't need or want all lesbian characters to survive in every piece of media I consume but girl... you got to know your lesbian media history or at least google before you start staying things aren't tropes. Goddamn. :nervous: :lol:

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#704

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 04:21
More cute redhead female characters pls
Please!


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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#705

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 04:23
Guest wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 22:02
I guess I don't understand why lesbians are supposed to have mortal immunity for some reason? Why can't she die? I doubt she will but I'd rather the lesbian characters be treated with the same notions that any other character would. I don't really think the lesbian dying thing is a trope anymore. I can't even think of that many examples of it other than that recent film The World To Come, or Lost and Delirious (and that was subjective). Desert Hearts, I believe, was the first lesbian American film and they didn't die in that.
I don't need or want all lesbian characters to survive in every piece of media I consume but girl... you got to know your lesbian media history or at least google before you start staying things aren't tropes. Goddamn. :nervous: :lol:
I’ve seen most lesbian movies and series. I have a whole dvd collection of every movie and show I know of that has lesbians in it. I just don’t agree with the idea that it’s that common that lesbians die in movies I guess. But I am 25 and maybe I don’t know of older movies with lesbian subtext that maybe people are referring to when they talk about it.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#706

Post by Guest »

I didn't quite understood the exchange they had in the bathtub.

Kirsten says "Like an iceberg. 90% of you hidden away." (I understand the analogy here)
But then Amy responds by asking "Are you my titanic?" (Like what, will she sink because of her?)
Kirsten then pursues with "Feels a bit like that sometimes." (Which I believe kinda put a chill but in what way? What was she insinuating?)

Tia

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#707

Post by Guest »

That we are doom to sink instead of making a meaningful rl out of it. Like we gonna crash and sink like the titantic hitting the iceberg instead of you just letting me know the real you for once

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#708

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 07:51
I didn't quite understood the exchange they had in the bathtub.

Kirsten says "Like an iceberg. 90% of you hidden away." (I understand the analogy here)
But then Amy responds by asking "Are you my titanic?" (Like what, will she sink because of her?)
Kirsten then pursues with "Feels a bit like that sometimes." (Which I believe kinda put a chill but in what way? What was she insinuating?)

Tia
Well, Kirsten is the only woman Amy is ever been attracted too and she's very private so it's logical for Kirsten to feel like she will get her heart broken eventually. It's only now that she and we know how much she means to Amy.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#709

Post by Guest »

I came into this thread expecting hot gifs and got 300 word essays about why lesbians dying in a tv show isn't bury your gays and Navy sailor worthy exposes of submarine conditions.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#710

Post by Guest »


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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#711

Post by Guest »

Some of y'all need to put into a torpedo tube and fired into the sea. Christ. :rofl:

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#712

Post by Guest »

For the record, I like the navy special forces intelligence anon

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#713

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 16:16
For the record, I like the navy special forces intelligence anon
Same here, she brings up facts I didn't know I like to know.

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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#714

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 04:30
Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 04:21
More cute redhead female characters pls
Please!

i think isabelle sieb the director is mutuals with this girl an she prolly dmed her the ending or at least gave a hint about the ending being good cause they all seem super optimistic.




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Re: BBC's new series Vigil

#715

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 11:29
Guest wrote:
21 Sep 2021, 07:51
I didn't quite understood the exchange they had in the bathtub.

Kirsten says "Like an iceberg. 90% of you hidden away." (I understand the analogy here)
But then Amy responds by asking "Are you my titanic?" (Like what, will she sink because of her?)
Kirsten then pursues with "Feels a bit like that sometimes." (Which I believe kinda put a chill but in what way? What was she insinuating?)

Tia
Well, Kirsten is the only woman Amy is ever been attracted too and she's very private so it's logical for Kirsten to feel like she will get her heart broken eventually. It's only now that she and we know how much she means to Amy.
I also think Amy is yet to figure out she cannot talk to Kirsten like she may have talked to a guy.

Here in this scene, she focuses on the fact that she said 'okay,' which is probably all a man would hear. Yet, Kirsten hears mostly the lack of enthusiasm behind the 'yeaaah, okaaay.'

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