Political Lesbians

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#451

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Guest wrote:
31 Aug 2022, 22:21
Julie Bindel having a crush a man

Guess he reminded her of Colin

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Re: Political Lesbians

#452

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The part about androgyny is how radfems, namely Sheila Jeffreys, hated that some lesbians were butch or femme, so to stay apart of the movement they went androgynous. The hatred and policing they did to lesbians during the 70s caused many lesbians to go back in the closet.

Sheila Jeffreys has a lot of odd views on butch and femme lesbians. Will add later.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#453

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The Get The L Out has just openly said they do believe it's a choice to be a lesbian.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#454

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Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 04:52
The Get The L Out has just openly said they do believe it's a choice to be a lesbian.

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Same Anon:

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Re: Political Lesbians

#455

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Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 04:55
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 04:52
The Get The L Out has just openly said they do believe it's a choice to be a lesbian.

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Same Anon:

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Forgot to add: They moved to their Instagram because they've been kicked off of Twitter for a few days.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#456

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Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 02:45
Image

The part about androgyny is how radfems, namely Sheila Jeffreys, hated that some lesbians were butch or femme, so to stay apart of the movement they went androgynous. The hatred and policing they did to lesbians during the 70s caused many lesbians to go back in the closet.

Sheila Jeffreys has a lot of odd views on butch and femme lesbians. Will add later.
"Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair"
"No one stood out by her attire, if she did, she was probably accused of being straight"
Great more stereotypes we have to thank them for. Also how is the first one not butch lol? And the everyone dresses the same and if you dont you get shunned, is some cult like behavior. Talking about how its just a live style for them :eyeroll:

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Re: Political Lesbians

#457

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guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 10:48
This thread can be closed. Tranny invasion here .
How? Where?

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Re: Political Lesbians

#458

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Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 10:56
guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 10:48
This thread can be closed. Tranny invasion here .
How? Where?
da Nowhere. Likely a poli lesbian troll, who thinks criticizing those lesbophobs that are against the TRAs means we must be TRAs/Trannies. Typical for people who are stuck in cult like believe systems.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#459

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Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 08:19
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 02:45
Image

The part about androgyny is how radfems, namely Sheila Jeffreys, hated that some lesbians were butch or femme, so to stay apart of the movement they went androgynous. The hatred and policing they did to lesbians during the 70s caused many lesbians to go back in the closet.

Sheila Jeffreys has a lot of odd views on butch and femme lesbians. Will add later.
"Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair"
"No one stood out by her attire, if she did, she was probably accused of being straight"
Great more stereotypes we have to thank them for. Also how is the first one not butch lol? And the everyone dresses the same and if you dont you get shunned, is some cult like behavior. Talking about how its just a live style for them :eyeroll:
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).

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Re: Political Lesbians

#460

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 08:19
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 02:45
Image

The part about androgyny is how radfems, namely Sheila Jeffreys, hated that some lesbians were butch or femme, so to stay apart of the movement they went androgynous. The hatred and policing they did to lesbians during the 70s caused many lesbians to go back in the closet.

Sheila Jeffreys has a lot of odd views on butch and femme lesbians. Will add later.
"Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair"
"No one stood out by her attire, if she did, she was probably accused of being straight"
Great more stereotypes we have to thank them for. Also how is the first one not butch lol? And the everyone dresses the same and if you dont you get shunned, is some cult like behavior. Talking about how its just a live style for them :eyeroll:
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Yeah but what i was saying was, that desexualization doesnt exist/makes sense. Sure they themselves have desexualized themselves, since they are mainly straight/bi women that got with women just, to give it to the men, not because they are actually (really) into women sexually, which obviously resulted in a none sexual partnership for them (and of course them trying to make lesbianism as a whole about sisterhood and not sexual attraction. But as a "style" it doesnt work. Like i said. "Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair", sounds like a regular butch woman, so are they saying butches are sexual, but also not sexual, cause dressing kinda like them means you are desexualized? Are they going with "i dont ID as butch, so im not" or what? Also you can never desexualize yourself from men, it is impossible. Go through an exhibit of what rape victims wore when they were rape and you'll see men dont give a shit about that.
Also i had a laugh at the "basically being genderless".....is she trying to say NB is real, cause that sounds pretty close to that lol.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#461

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Get The L Out has privated their Instagram lol

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Re: Political Lesbians

#462

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Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Why was she condescending to the South Korean radfems? Aren't they straight women too?

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Re: Political Lesbians

#463

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 13:10
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 08:19
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 02:45
Image

The part about androgyny is how radfems, namely Sheila Jeffreys, hated that some lesbians were butch or femme, so to stay apart of the movement they went androgynous. The hatred and policing they did to lesbians during the 70s caused many lesbians to go back in the closet.

Sheila Jeffreys has a lot of odd views on butch and femme lesbians. Will add later.
"Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair"
"No one stood out by her attire, if she did, she was probably accused of being straight"
Great more stereotypes we have to thank them for. Also how is the first one not butch lol? And the everyone dresses the same and if you dont you get shunned, is some cult like behavior. Talking about how its just a live style for them :eyeroll:
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Yeah but what i was saying was, that desexualization doesnt exist/makes sense. Sure they themselves have desexualized themselves, since they are mainly straight/bi women that got with women just, to give it to the men, not because they are actually (really) into women sexually, which obviously resulted in a none sexual partnership for them (and of course them trying to make lesbianism as a whole about sisterhood and not sexual attraction. But as a "style" it doesnt work. Like i said. "Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair", sounds like a regular butch woman, so are they saying butches are sexual, but also not sexual, cause dressing kinda like them means you are desexualized? Are they going with "i dont ID as butch, so im not" or what? Also you can never desexualize yourself from men, it is impossible. Go through an exhibit of what rape victims wore when they were rape and you'll see men dont give a shit about that.
Also i had a laugh at the "basically being genderless".....is she trying to say NB is real, cause that sounds pretty close to that lol.
I completely agree with everything you just wrote. It's designed to confuse because they are predators trying to initiate vulnerable women into a selfhating cult where you either blame yourself for men oppressing womankind and change yourself from head to toe to "fight back", or you're held responsible for inviting men to oppress you and your fellow woman with intense group shaming. The logic behind it is classic victim blaming. Lesbians are especially targeted because our sexuality contradicts radfem ideals about what it means to love women.

They hate fashion, anything to do with modifying your appearance to attract another person is patriarchal according to the likes of Sheila Jeffreys. Actual lesbian sexuality is seen by them as imitation of heterosexuality, and their version is "cleansing" lesbianism of patriarchy's influences. It's not that they want to be sexless by the way so it isn't the same as being nonbinary. They just want women to be free of femininity, so what do you think happens when lesbians remind them women who love women can also be feminine or sexually attracted to feminine women? They go fucking bonkers.

These radfems don't consider themselves masculine, they consider themselves to have rejected gender roles completely, their dress is a way of sending a political message to men and society at large (whereas butches want to express themselves through masculine fashion to attract women, it's very natural for them to dress that way instead of an intentional transformation, and radfems are SUPER triggered by masculine women fucking feminine women for obvious reasons). The nuance is there between these polilezzers and butch lesbians and it has to be because of the hate speech they spew towards all lesbians. Femmes don't have it any better though and I say that as one. I literally got sucked into this form of feminism for years as a kid because it preyed on my internalised lesphobia, and you usually never come across more than just some reasonable quotes taken out of context from the rest of their books which slowly progress into worse and worse lesphobia. I'm so sick of the shit infiltrating our community and making younger lesbians hate themselves, making them think they're just as bad as men for being attracted to women and should "unlearn" it until it's desexualised enough for radfems who will shame them while pretending to be fellow lesbians, all under the guise of caring about lesbians!

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Re: Political Lesbians

#464

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:27
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 13:10
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 08:19
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 02:45
Image

The part about androgyny is how radfems, namely Sheila Jeffreys, hated that some lesbians were butch or femme, so to stay apart of the movement they went androgynous. The hatred and policing they did to lesbians during the 70s caused many lesbians to go back in the closet.

Sheila Jeffreys has a lot of odd views on butch and femme lesbians. Will add later.
"Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair"
"No one stood out by her attire, if she did, she was probably accused of being straight"
Great more stereotypes we have to thank them for. Also how is the first one not butch lol? And the everyone dresses the same and if you dont you get shunned, is some cult like behavior. Talking about how its just a live style for them :eyeroll:
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Yeah but what i was saying was, that desexualization doesnt exist/makes sense. Sure they themselves have desexualized themselves, since they are mainly straight/bi women that got with women just, to give it to the men, not because they are actually (really) into women sexually, which obviously resulted in a none sexual partnership for them (and of course them trying to make lesbianism as a whole about sisterhood and not sexual attraction. But as a "style" it doesnt work. Like i said. "Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair", sounds like a regular butch woman, so are they saying butches are sexual, but also not sexual, cause dressing kinda like them means you are desexualized? Are they going with "i dont ID as butch, so im not" or what? Also you can never desexualize yourself from men, it is impossible. Go through an exhibit of what rape victims wore when they were rape and you'll see men dont give a shit about that.
Also i had a laugh at the "basically being genderless".....is she trying to say NB is real, cause that sounds pretty close to that lol.
I completely agree with everything you just wrote. It's designed to confuse because they are predators trying to initiate vulnerable women into a selfhating cult where you either blame yourself for men oppressing womankind and change yourself from head to toe to "fight back", or you're held responsible for inviting men to oppress you and your fellow woman with intense group shaming. The logic behind it is classic victim blaming. Lesbians are especially targeted because our sexuality contradicts radfem ideals about what it means to love women.

They hate fashion, anything to do with modifying your appearance to attract another person is patriarchal according to the likes of Sheila Jeffreys. Actual lesbian sexuality is seen by them as imitation of heterosexuality, and their version is "cleansing" lesbianism of patriarchy's influences. It's not that they want to be sexless by the way so it isn't the same as being nonbinary. They just want women to be free of femininity, so what do you think happens when lesbians remind them women who love women can also be feminine or sexually attracted to feminine women? They go fucking bonkers.

These radfems don't consider themselves masculine, they consider themselves to have rejected gender roles completely, their dress is a way of sending a political message to men and society at large (whereas butches want to express themselves through masculine fashion to attract women, it's very natural for them to dress that way instead of an intentional transformation, and radfems are SUPER triggered by masculine women fucking feminine women for obvious reasons). The nuance is there between these polilezzers and butch lesbians and it has to be because of the hate speech they spew towards all lesbians. Femmes don't have it any better though and I say that as one. I literally got sucked into this form of feminism for years as a kid because it preyed on my internalised lesphobia, and you usually never come across more than just some reasonable quotes taken out of context from the rest of their books which slowly progress into worse and worse lesphobia. I'm so sick of the shit infiltrating our community and making younger lesbians hate themselves, making them think they're just as bad as men for being attracted to women and should "unlearn" it until it's desexualised enough for radfems who will shame them while pretending to be fellow lesbians, all under the guise of caring about lesbians!
Which is the "self IDing" i addressed and the completely bonkers part about it. Like nobody will ask them why they dress the way they dress and people will just assume they are butch/butch leaning women, which they hate. It hilarious, like no men and society arent going to view you as genderless, but as a masculine woman lol. Only we can tell the difference, because of their lesbophobic views as soon as they open their mouths.
And the shaming part, is just another example of their rampaged fight against sexual woman, like you said. They can not understand how a woman might look at a woman sexually and why a woman would "dress nice" for another woman. I always though of it as backwarded misogyny, like you dont want women to have something nice? You only want women to look like they dont put an effort into themselves, cause muh thats the patriarchy and they should just look "genderless" all the time? So lesbians can never have a woman that is perceived beautiful by the society we also do live in? Talk about putting women down.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#465

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:03
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Why was she condescending to the South Korean radfems? Aren't they straight women too?
The full interview was I think held by this woman and another on a channel called Korean Womyn but has since been privated. This one explained she'd rejected femininity because South Korean society oppresses women by enforcing strict gender roles on them even in jobs. The entire cultural context is different and restricts those women's ability to become independent much more, so I won't comment on her decision. When she told Sheila this in the interview, Sheila pretty much blamed South Korean women for participating in these practises even though the ones interviewing her were teenagers in their stories.

As someone who can't speak Korean, radfems there don't seem to call themselves lesbians if they aren't. It could just be that the language doesn't allow for the same level of bullshit identity politics. Unfortunately this will probably changed with the influence of people like Sheila with delusional saviour complexes, older narcissistic women who want to take advantage of other women's legitimate struggles in order to push their weirdo polilez agenda, with the result being that they get to tell us all what to do instead of men.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#466

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:45
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:27
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 13:10
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 08:19

"Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair"
"No one stood out by her attire, if she did, she was probably accused of being straight"
Great more stereotypes we have to thank them for. Also how is the first one not butch lol? And the everyone dresses the same and if you dont you get shunned, is some cult like behavior. Talking about how its just a live style for them :eyeroll:
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Yeah but what i was saying was, that desexualization doesnt exist/makes sense. Sure they themselves have desexualized themselves, since they are mainly straight/bi women that got with women just, to give it to the men, not because they are actually (really) into women sexually, which obviously resulted in a none sexual partnership for them (and of course them trying to make lesbianism as a whole about sisterhood and not sexual attraction. But as a "style" it doesnt work. Like i said. "Flannel shirts, blue jeans, no make up, no jewelry and short hair", sounds like a regular butch woman, so are they saying butches are sexual, but also not sexual, cause dressing kinda like them means you are desexualized? Are they going with "i dont ID as butch, so im not" or what? Also you can never desexualize yourself from men, it is impossible. Go through an exhibit of what rape victims wore when they were rape and you'll see men dont give a shit about that.
Also i had a laugh at the "basically being genderless".....is she trying to say NB is real, cause that sounds pretty close to that lol.
I completely agree with everything you just wrote. It's designed to confuse because they are predators trying to initiate vulnerable women into a selfhating cult where you either blame yourself for men oppressing womankind and change yourself from head to toe to "fight back", or you're held responsible for inviting men to oppress you and your fellow woman with intense group shaming. The logic behind it is classic victim blaming. Lesbians are especially targeted because our sexuality contradicts radfem ideals about what it means to love women.

They hate fashion, anything to do with modifying your appearance to attract another person is patriarchal according to the likes of Sheila Jeffreys. Actual lesbian sexuality is seen by them as imitation of heterosexuality, and their version is "cleansing" lesbianism of patriarchy's influences. It's not that they want to be sexless by the way so it isn't the same as being nonbinary. They just want women to be free of femininity, so what do you think happens when lesbians remind them women who love women can also be feminine or sexually attracted to feminine women? They go fucking bonkers.

These radfems don't consider themselves masculine, they consider themselves to have rejected gender roles completely, their dress is a way of sending a political message to men and society at large (whereas butches want to express themselves through masculine fashion to attract women, it's very natural for them to dress that way instead of an intentional transformation, and radfems are SUPER triggered by masculine women fucking feminine women for obvious reasons). The nuance is there between these polilezzers and butch lesbians and it has to be because of the hate speech they spew towards all lesbians. Femmes don't have it any better though and I say that as one. I literally got sucked into this form of feminism for years as a kid because it preyed on my internalised lesphobia, and you usually never come across more than just some reasonable quotes taken out of context from the rest of their books which slowly progress into worse and worse lesphobia. I'm so sick of the shit infiltrating our community and making younger lesbians hate themselves, making them think they're just as bad as men for being attracted to women and should "unlearn" it until it's desexualised enough for radfems who will shame them while pretending to be fellow lesbians, all under the guise of caring about lesbians!
Which is the "self IDing" i addressed and the completely bonkers part about it. Like nobody will ask them why they dress the way they dress and people will just assume they are butch/butch leaning women, which they hate. It hilarious, like no men and society arent going to view you as genderless, but as a masculine woman lol. Only we can tell the difference, because of their lesbophobic views as soon as they open their mouths.
And the shaming part, is just another example of their rampaged fight against sexual woman, like you said. They can not understand how a woman might look at a woman sexually and why a woman would "dress nice" for another woman. I always though of it as backwarded misogyny, like you dont want women to have something nice? You only want women to look like they dont put an effort into themselves, cause muh thats the patriarchy and they should just look "genderless" all the time? So lesbians can never have a woman that is perceived beautiful by the society we also do live in? Talk about putting women down.
Yeah! It's like they see sexuality as inherently bad, as this terrible thing that indebts you to men or makes you a slave to them, and femininity is just a show of submission to men in Sheila's mind (and masculinity is always an imitation of men) so we should undo it all to be free, but because of who? Men. So either way women are expected to live our lives revolved around men. What men think of us, how men might treat us. What if I have sexual desires outside of men and want to be feminine to attract women? Does it mean I'm "asking for it"? What if I care about what women think of me, am I a victim of lesbians oppressing women now? Like this really is just a very maladaptive form of heterosexuality where the end goal is nothingness because that's the only way Sheila will ever feel safe. Some women project their shame around sexuality, after being hurt by men, onto women who are comfortable with our sexualities. I have empathy for women who are traumatised by men, of course I do, but it's not an excuse to shame and control other women into helping you feel empowered or whatever.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#467

Post by Guest »



:fingcross: here's to hoping she'll get asked about her lesbophobic views, probably not, but still, let's hope

Guest
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Re: Political Lesbians

#468

Post by Guest »

I honestly believe that political fakebians are a major reason as to why no one believes lesbians exist and even when you're 50 there will be people that are waiting for you to go back to men. And the "lesbian" until graduation" thing. Reading about many political fakebians most of them became radfems during college years.

They were, and are, everywhere, especially in the 60s and 70s. No one can honestly say that the majority of them stayed political fakebians for the rest of their lives.
Julie Bindel, Sheila Jeffreys and others are living in the age of the internet they have to keep up the act or they'll lose everything. Buy honestly we don't know what they do in private. Again, Dworkin had a secret husband lol

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Re: Political Lesbians

#469

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
02 Oct 2022, 23:50
:fingcross: here's to hoping she'll get asked about her lesbophobic views, probably not, but still, let's hope
I'd love for it to happen but I doubt it will. Too many prominent lesbians never question her on the whole PL BS. It's baffling because it's so clearly lesbophobic but that's a problem I've noticed with so-called feminist circles - if someone's high profile, they hardly ever get criticised or challenged. Personality cult level.

Guest
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Re: Political Lesbians

#470

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 10:35
Guest wrote:
02 Oct 2022, 23:50
:fingcross: here's to hoping she'll get asked about her lesbophobic views, probably not, but still, let's hope
I'd love for it to happen but I doubt it will. Too many prominent lesbians never question her on the whole PL BS. It's baffling because it's so clearly lesbophobic but that's a problem I've noticed with so-called feminist circles - if someone's high profile, they hardly ever get criticised or challenged. Personality cult level.
da Jup, there are way to many lesbians without a spine, who dont give a shit and support her, cause "at least shes against the trannies" or something. If she was called out she would just have a temper tatum on twitter and some bootlickers would ask her to comeback.

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Re: Political Lesbians

#471

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 12:34
Guest wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 10:35
Guest wrote:
02 Oct 2022, 23:50
:fingcross: here's to hoping she'll get asked about her lesbophobic views, probably not, but still, let's hope
I'd love for it to happen but I doubt it will. Too many prominent lesbians never question her on the whole PL BS. It's baffling because it's so clearly lesbophobic but that's a problem I've noticed with so-called feminist circles - if someone's high profile, they hardly ever get criticised or challenged. Personality cult level.
da Jup, there are way to many lesbians without a spine, who dont give a shit and support her, cause "at least shes against the trannies" or something. If she was called out she would just have a temper tatum on twitter and some bootlickers would ask her to comeback.
DA

When a lesbian brings up their PL lesbophobia in a radical feminist space, radfems will dog pile them to silence them. The only radfem space I've seen that typically doesn't do that is radblr, but there are a lot of bi/het radfems who claim lesbians are oppressors, despite the fact that lesbians are a tiny minority and het/bi women vastly outnumber us.

Even on the "#GetTheLOut London Lesbians Protest During Pride" board when lesbians were quoting PL's own words someone commented that they were just "stirring sh!t" up, with some "bi women are the most oppressed" talking points. Yes, bi women are oppressed, by men, men are the ones that abuse bi women at extremely high rates, and being lesbophobic because of biphobia is still lesbophobic and not ok.

Guest
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Re: Political Lesbians

#472

Post by Guest »

" The male “gay” culture has offered lesbians the imitation role-stereotypes of “butch” and “femme,” “active” and
“passive,” cruising, sado-masochism, and the violent, self-destructive world of “gay” bars. Neither heterosexual culture nor “gay” culture has offered lesbians a space in which to discover what it means to be self-defined, self-loving, women-identified, neither an imitation man nor his objectified opposite."
- Sheila Jeffreys' "Queer Politics."


I'm not a gay man but I do know that feminine gay men aren't welcomed or sought out much in that community. There was a "not fats, no femmes" thing on gay hook-up apps. But also, there hasn't been much of a "masculine/feminine" thing in gay men's community. Lesbians have the futch scale, while gay men have some categories for body types and body hair. Although that doesn't mean a "Bear" is masculine, he can be femme but just fat and hairy.

The "an imitation man" is just queer logic. That if a female has short hair, or wears masculine clothing she's man-like, either a trans"man" or NB. I'm not butch, but the butch women I met have all said they were like that from when they could remember. It's also just possible women can like short hair and wearing pants, I know, shocker! Women aren't naturally inclined to like certain things.

Sheila claims that butch was created in the 1990s as a creepy sex-thing. Which no, Anne Lister was butch and she lived from 1791- 1840. There's this list of butch women that lived before the 90s https://afterellen.com/five-butch-lesbi ... m-history/
"For gays it is butch/femme, aggressive-passive. And the extreme, in either case, is sadist-masochist. Human beings become objectified, are treated as property, as if one person could own another." Yeah, this is also wrong, ask any femme and they'll 9/10 say they're the one in charge lol.

"Julia Penelope, the US lesbian feminist theorist, demonstrates considerable insight about the attraction of SM for lesbians. In her critiques of the acting out of hierarchies derived from the hetero-patriarchy for the purposes of sexual excitement, she uses her own experience to write incisively about the ways in which butch/femme role-playing and sadomasochism are connected with child sexual abuse. She explains that the ideology of sadomasochism and the "polarities that make it “work” ’ incorporate our experience of power and control as children." This is just "I'm right because I said so," this is confirmation bias, and she's a feminist theorist not a professional psychologist or anything else. Jeffreys is using one woman as proof to be able to blanket statement entire community. Why is she considered credible?

"Kelly Conway says that she was raised by two butches and then learnt to be femme. She was taught by a girl-friend ‘the erotic dynamic of butch-femme. It turned me on when she opened doors for me’ (Conway 1995: 301). Despite having had to be taught, she none the less claims that femmeness is her ‘real’ self: Today I know that to be butch or femme is not to play a role but to express one’s self' (p. 302). Her motivation appears to be a kind of romantic masochism.
‘I am in constant awe of my butch: her strength and intelligence, and the power in her ability to be so gentle.... It is liberating to be able to turn to strong arms during a nightmare, delegate spider patrol, and allow myself to be vulnerable and nurturing’


She's just talking about being in love and how her butch treats her well, and Sheila Jeffrey reads that goes "masochism." Plus how is Conway "taught" the the erotic ways of butch-femme when all her girlfriend did was open the door for her?

Then Sheila victim blames...

Sheila again uses one woman as proof, this one woman claims that butch/femme brings bullying, and the femmes allow it, see 129, but then she never goes into detail or her own experiences, she just says it happens and that's it. The rest is her talking about it being boring.

So Sheila uses this to set up how being a butch or femme means abuse, then she writes-
"Femmes help to construct butches. They seek to satisfy the masochistic desires they developed whilst growing up in subordinate girlhood."

The proof for this???

Sheila, agaiiiinnn, uses one woman as definitive proof- "women like Heather Findlay, editor
of the US lesbian magazine Girlfriends, a femme who has had two lovers transition to become FTMs, indulge them."
Heather in this part seems to be joking (next part she's clearly joking), and Sheila assumed she was being serious or as she writes half-serious, half-joking: "She says she ‘half¬ jokes’ with friends that ‘I’m experiencing what is becoming an occupational hazard for femmes at the close of the twentieth century: don’t blink, because when you open your eyes your butch will have kissed her elbow and turned into a man’

So Sheila is saying that femmes create butch women because they want to be abused, and then turn them into pseudo-men, then leave them and start again?

This is just Sheila just calling lesbians, whether they're butch or femme, predators. Because they're lesbians. All she does is put connotations that weren't there, words in people's mouths, frame every lesbian as evil, and cherry pick information. Yet she's one of the most famous radfems.

It's funny because there are many butch radfems, I wonder if they've ever read what she thinks of them, and how Sheila actually ended up causing so much hatred towards butch/femmes that many of them went back into the closet?

Guest
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Re: Political Lesbians

#473

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 00:55
I honestly believe that political fakebians are a major reason as to why no one believes lesbians exist and even when you're 50 there will be people that are waiting for you to go back to men. And the "lesbian" until graduation" thing. Reading about many political fakebians most of them became radfems during college years.

They were, and are, everywhere, especially in the 60s and 70s. No one can honestly say that the majority of them stayed political fakebians for the rest of their lives.
Julie Bindel, Sheila Jeffreys and others are living in the age of the internet they have to keep up the act or they'll lose everything. Buy honestly we don't know what they do in private. Again, Dworkin had a secret husband lol
Absolutely. Every stereotype about lesbian coming from straight society ie : 1) lesbians are ugly and bitter that no man wants them 2) lesbians date women as a second option because no man wants them 3) lesbians are lesbians because of trauma with men

I used to think these lesbophobic stereotypes were solely created by homophobes.
Turns out that these stereotypes are true in the sense that political fakebians are like that: bitter het women who hate men (often, rightly so) and who decide to ‘become’ lesbians to stick it to men or because they’re mad at their ex husband who was an asshole, and they decide to let themselves go as a way to ‘fight the patriarchy´
So heterosexuals using these stereotypes against lesbians are homophobes yes but they’re not completely wrong because to them, fakebians and actual lesbians are hard to tell apart.
I can’t believe people still think Dworkin was a lesbian. Her husband wasn’t secret at all and she was never romantically linked to any woman

Guest
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Re: Political Lesbians

#474

Post by Guest »

The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#475

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.

Guest
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Re: Political Lesbians

#476

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
If she said that water is wet, would you argue otherwise?
I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism.
Not by polilez, no. But still on that aspect she isn’t entirely wrong. Of course she hates ALL lesbians, I’m aware of that.
Obviously lesbians can do whatever they want in their bedroom but I’m still going to find that dynamic off-putting to say the least.
I wouldn’t say this among het/bi women because I’m aware it just adds fuel to their lesbophobic fire. This is supposed to be a lesbian forum but alas, as usual we are invaded so I’m sure lesbophobes of all stripes are reading this.

Guest
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Re: Political Lesbians

#477

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:46
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:03
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Why was she condescending to the South Korean radfems? Aren't they straight women too?
The full interview was I think held by this woman and another on a channel called Korean Womyn but has since been privated. This one explained she'd rejected femininity because South Korean society oppresses women by enforcing strict gender roles on them even in jobs. The entire cultural context is different and restricts those women's ability to become independent much more, so I won't comment on her decision. When she told Sheila this in the interview, Sheila pretty much blamed South Korean women for participating in these practises even though the ones interviewing her were teenagers in their stories.

As someone who can't speak Korean, radfems there don't seem to call themselves lesbians if they aren't. It could just be that the language doesn't allow for the same level of bullshit identity politics. Unfortunately this will probably changed with the influence of people like Sheila with delusional saviour complexes, older narcissistic women who want to take advantage of other women's legitimate struggles in order to push their weirdo polilez agenda, with the result being that they get to tell us all what to do instead of men.
Could we not patronize women from other cultures as if they’re children and as if they don’t have any thoughts themselves? The US isn’t the center of the universe and Asians didn’t wait until SJ to hate homosexuals.
Koreans are deeply homophobic too and Korean radfems aren’t less so just because they’re from Korea.
I’ve read that Koreans and Chinese radfems (I don’t speak the language) are calling themselves lesbians even though they’re not. I suppose for them, it’s an ever bigger fuck you to their traditional societies so they must feel particularly rebellious doing that.
They don’t get a pass just because they’re Asians. Asian in an Asian country, I may add, so literally the majority and not a minority at all (which is the only prism through which Americans seem to understand foreign cultures)

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#478

Post by Guest »

Which is the "self IDing" i addressed and the completely bonkers part about it. Like nobody will ask them why they dress the way they dress and people will just assume they are butch/butch leaning women, which they hate. It hilarious, like no men and society arent going to view you as genderless, but as a masculine woman lol. Only we can tell the difference, because of their lesbophobic views as soon as they open their mouths.
And the shaming part, is just another example of their rampaged fight against sexual woman, like you said. They can not understand how a woman might look at a woman sexually and why a woman would "dress nice" for another woman. I always though of it as backwarded misogyny, like you dont want women to have something nice? You only want women to look like they dont put an effort into themselves, cause muh thats the patriarchy and they should just look "genderless" all the time? So lesbians can never have a woman that is perceived beautiful by the society we also do live in? Talk about putting women down.
[/quote]

Yeah! It's like they see sexuality as inherently bad, as this terrible thing that indebts you to men or makes you a slave to them, and femininity is just a show of submission to men in Sheila's mind (and masculinity is always an imitation of men) so we should undo it all to be free, but because of who? Men. So either way women are expected to live our lives revolved around men. What men think of us, how men might treat us. What if I have sexual desires outside of men and want to be feminine to attract women? Does it mean I'm "asking for it"? What if I care about what women think of me, am I a victim of lesbians oppressing women now? Like this really is just a very maladaptive form of heterosexuality where the end goal is nothingness because that's the only way Sheila will ever feel safe. Some women project their shame around sexuality, after being hurt by men, onto women who are comfortable with our sexualities. I have empathy for women who are traumatised by men, of course I do, but it's not an excuse to shame and control other women into helping you feel empowered or whatever.
[/quote]



Da x2
Fakebians are really unable to grasp that lesbians want to look cute for other lesbians.
This MUST be something men put into my head or some shit, according to them.
No, me wearing a cute dress isn’t to appeal to the male gaze, it’s to look cute for my date with another woman. Couldn’t care less about men and what they want.
I also want to look good for myself so I will moisturize and take care of my appearance. If you read radfem literature, this is basically a crime. I also commit the radfem crime of caring what my girlfriend looks like. Radfems believe lesbians have no standards and will be in a relationship with anyone who is female and calls herself a lesbian. When lesbians are human beings with a pulse and a type.
Makes sense as radfems are not sexually attracted to women so the sexual/chemistry/romantic aspect doesn’t matter to them.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#479

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
DA Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing and still hate them/denounce them and keep ones distance from them and their groups and so on. I sure most of us agree with their stance against the TRAs, which is ironic, cause obviously their ideology is just a different side of the same coin and they dont realize it and still hate them and call them out on their bullshit. Anon just agrees with them in this point too, doesnt mean she doesnt recognize the lesbophobia that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics in the first place. Even blind chicken sometimes find a corn.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#480

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:08
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
If she said that water is wet, would you argue otherwise?
I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism.
Not by polilez, no. But still on that aspect she isn’t entirely wrong. Of course she hates ALL lesbians, I’m aware of that.
Obviously lesbians can do whatever they want in their bedroom but I’m still going to find that dynamic off-putting to say the least.
I wouldn’t say this among het/bi women because I’m aware it just adds fuel to their lesbophobic fire. This is supposed to be a lesbian forum but alas, as usual we are invaded so I’m sure lesbophobes of all stripes are reading this.
DA
I believe that most of that subculture is now taken by TIFs and NB women, as that subculture was always full of "butches" that do want to emulate men, so a small among (since butches are a tiny group anyways) of a small among of women.
The Irony again is that now all these poli lesbians care sooooooo much about these women, since they are transing themselves now, even though if they would have stayed masc women, they would have hated them. These stupid poli lesbian are always like a flag in the wind.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#481

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:46
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
DA Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing and still hate them/denounce them and keep ones distance from them and their groups and so on. I sure most of us agree with their stance against the TRAs, which is ironic, cause obviously their ideology is just a different side of the same coin and they dont realize it and still hate them and call them out on their bullshit. Anon just agrees with them in this point too, doesnt mean she doesnt recognize the lesbophobia that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics in the first place. Even blind chicken sometimes find a corn.
I'll be honest and say I have never met a femme or butch who matches any stereotypes about them and that I think this niche subculture is being used as a caricature to brandish femmes and butches as something they're not by and large, because most lesbians who identify with those terms only do because of their style or natural personality rather than because they want to commit to a strict role. Does that mean some lesbians don't play roles? Nope. And I can also say I'm not offended by women who want to roleplay in their relationships with other women because it doesn't affect me, so long as they both chose it, even though I don't understand why. But disliking it and speaking openly about disliking it is totally acceptable on a lesbian forum and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila, based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless. Because as she said it comes down to these lesbians getting of on roleplaying, nothing more. Who cares? She obviously just thinks lesbians are an easier target to herd up and boss around for not always being feminist angels in bed than the actual oppressors and the 95% of women dating them. We're being used as scapegoats.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#482

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:17
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:46
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 14:03
Guest wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 11:57
DA They hate butches just as much as they hate femmes because they hate lesbians. Sheila is the worst about this particular subject by far. I found her through a video of South Korean radfems (not the polilez kind) interviewing the woman and sharing experiences only to be condescended by her the whole time. I then looked her up on YouTube to figure out why she was invited on their show and found a video of Sheila ranting about how butches are agents of the patriarchy, men lite, and that the way to fight the patriarchy is by basically being genderless. She has desexualised herself. It's not the same as being butch. They don't like it when lesbians express sexuality through femininity or masculinity or when we want to be attractive to women, because they hate our sexuality and they project all their negative experiences with men onto lesbian relationships (even when both women are femme).
Why was she condescending to the South Korean radfems? Aren't they straight women too?
The full interview was I think held by this woman and another on a channel called Korean Womyn but has since been privated. This one explained she'd rejected femininity because South Korean society oppresses women by enforcing strict gender roles on them even in jobs. The entire cultural context is different and restricts those women's ability to become independent much more, so I won't comment on her decision. When she told Sheila this in the interview, Sheila pretty much blamed South Korean women for participating in these practises even though the ones interviewing her were teenagers in their stories.

As someone who can't speak Korean, radfems there don't seem to call themselves lesbians if they aren't. It could just be that the language doesn't allow for the same level of bullshit identity politics. Unfortunately this will probably changed with the influence of people like Sheila with delusional saviour complexes, older narcissistic women who want to take advantage of other women's legitimate struggles in order to push their weirdo polilez agenda, with the result being that they get to tell us all what to do instead of men.
Could we not patronize women from other cultures as if they’re children and as if they don’t have any thoughts themselves? The US isn’t the center of the universe and Asians didn’t wait until SJ to hate homosexuals.
Koreans are deeply homophobic too and Korean radfems aren’t less so just because they’re from Korea.
I’ve read that Koreans and Chinese radfems (I don’t speak the language) are calling themselves lesbians even though they’re not. I suppose for them, it’s an ever bigger fuck you to their traditional societies so they must feel particularly rebellious doing that.
They don’t get a pass just because they’re Asians. Asian in an Asian country, I may add, so literally the majority and not a minority at all (which is the only prism through which Americans seem to understand foreign cultures)
Of course but I've legitimately never seen a South Korean radfem calling herself a lesbian when she's not one so I can only speak from my own experience mostly with radfems from the Escape the Corset movement a few years ago. The woman in that video has another video where she emphasises the right to be feminine or masculine so it's not as dogmatic as Sheila's preachings at the very least. If they are trending that way, I can see it being partially from influence of radfem figures like Sheila who as you can see are idolised by some Asian radfem communities.

She is treated as Mother Radical Feminist and South Korea is an incredibly homophobic country but it's also a very different culture further behind in feminism historically, and so that crowd is absolutely taking guidance from established radical feminists who do happen to be foreigners as part of their "revolution". If the tide turns fully to renouncing your heterosexuality as the big fuck you, to me it still shows radfems like Sheila are taking advantage of young women (who yes, are suggestible, which is more relevant to my point than them being Asian, but as you said their belief homosexuality is just rebellion is homophobic itself). They're in an extra misogynistic society, and all Sheila sees is an opportunity to brainwash them into basically believing the only way to be free is to revive her career from the '70s because bra burning didn't work in the west.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#483

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:34
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:46
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
DA Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing and still hate them/denounce them and keep ones distance from them and their groups and so on. I sure most of us agree with their stance against the TRAs, which is ironic, cause obviously their ideology is just a different side of the same coin and they dont realize it and still hate them and call them out on their bullshit. Anon just agrees with them in this point too, doesnt mean she doesnt recognize the lesbophobia that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics in the first place. Even blind chicken sometimes find a corn.
I'll be honest and say I have never met a femme or butch who matches any stereotypes about them and that I think this niche subculture is being used as a caricature to brandish femmes and butches as something they're not by and large, because most lesbians who identify with those terms only do because of their style or natural personality rather than because they want to commit to a strict role. Does that mean some lesbians don't play roles? Nope. And I can also say I'm not offended by women who want to roleplay in their relationships with other women because it doesn't affect me, so long as they both chose it, even though I don't understand why. But disliking it and speaking openly about disliking it is totally acceptable on a lesbian forum and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila, based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless. Because as she said it comes down to these lesbians getting of on roleplaying, nothing more. Who cares? She obviously just thinks lesbians are an easier target to herd up and boss around for not always being feminist angels in bed than the actual oppressors and the 95% of women dating them. We're being used as scapegoats.
Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me. Her last GF wanted a highly gendered relationship, came out as stone at one point and later said she was trans (she never transitioned though). Like i said in another comment these women are most likely TIFs or NB now and rare. i mean most masc women these days ID as tomboys anyway. I mean yes you never know, but analyzing social phenomenons is normal. You cant say, never question why we do what, i mean obviously women like Jeffreys should stfu about it and have no right to say shit like that as we know its just rooted in her hate for lesbians, but people should be able to look into those dynamics.

"I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila."
I dont think anyone is aligning anything nor is anyone talking about "sexual preferences". You can agree with anyone on anything, also not everything has to have the same weight, thats the same argument as the poli lesbians use: The trannies are a physical thread and we (poli lesbians) are not and we wanna help you, so ignore that we are trash to fight the worse threat. Or completely different example, domestic abuse exist in lesbian relationships too, noone should ignore that just because its miniscule compared to the abuse women face from their male partners.
One can care about multiple things at once and should, we arent a cult and if any anon wants to discuss that she should.
I mean if you are the person that shared Jeffreys opinion about butch/femme, then you cared enough about what she thinks about it too.
Hell even Julie bindel had some sane stuff to say about prostitution, doesnt mean i will ever let her call herself a lesbian or spread her homophobia in peace.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#484

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 15:02
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:34
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:46
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
DA Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing and still hate them/denounce them and keep ones distance from them and their groups and so on. I sure most of us agree with their stance against the TRAs, which is ironic, cause obviously their ideology is just a different side of the same coin and they dont realize it and still hate them and call them out on their bullshit. Anon just agrees with them in this point too, doesnt mean she doesnt recognize the lesbophobia that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics in the first place. Even blind chicken sometimes find a corn.
I'll be honest and say I have never met a femme or butch who matches any stereotypes about them and that I think this niche subculture is being used as a caricature to brandish femmes and butches as something they're not by and large, because most lesbians who identify with those terms only do because of their style or natural personality rather than because they want to commit to a strict role. Does that mean some lesbians don't play roles? Nope. And I can also say I'm not offended by women who want to roleplay in their relationships with other women because it doesn't affect me, so long as they both chose it, even though I don't understand why. But disliking it and speaking openly about disliking it is totally acceptable on a lesbian forum and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila, based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless. Because as she said it comes down to these lesbians getting of on roleplaying, nothing more. Who cares? She obviously just thinks lesbians are an easier target to herd up and boss around for not always being feminist angels in bed than the actual oppressors and the 95% of women dating them. We're being used as scapegoats.
Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me. Her last GF wanted a highly gendered relationship, came out as stone at one point and later said she was trans (she never transitioned though). Like i said in another comment these women are most likely TIFs or NB now and rare. i mean most masc women these days ID as tomboys anyway. I mean yes you never know, but analyzing social phenomenons is normal. You cant say, never question why we do what, i mean obviously women like Jeffreys should stfu about it and have no right to say shit like that as we know its just rooted in her hate for lesbians, but people should be able to look into those dynamics.

"I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila."
I dont think anyone is aligning anything nor is anyone talking about "sexual preferences". You can agree with anyone on anything, also not everything has to have the same weight, thats the same argument as the poli lesbians use: The trannies are a physical thread and we (poli lesbians) are not and we wanna help you, so ignore that we are trash to fight the worse threat. Or completely different example, domestic abuse exist in lesbian relationships too, noone should ignore that just because its miniscule compared to the abuse women face from their male partners.
One can care about multiple things at once and should, we arent a cult and if any anon wants to discuss that she should.
I mean if you are the person that shared Jeffreys opinion about butch/femme, then you cared enough about what she thinks about it too.
Hell even Julie bindel had some sane stuff to say about prostitution, doesnt mean i will ever let her call herself a lesbian or spread her homophobia in peace.
For sure I'm not against discussion but I don't get what is being agreed with. What did Sheila say that you agree with? I assumed your sexual preferences weren't the same as those lesbians who are into roleplaying which yeah, mine aren't either. I can't tell why else you're talking about it as a negative thing besides what Sheila said which is the poilez take intent on policing and cleansing the community from anything she personally dislikes sexually, sorry for misunderstanding. I don't know how domestic violence factors in to anything consensual being discussed either.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#485

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:15
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 15:02
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:34
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:46
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41


Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
DA Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing and still hate them/denounce them and keep ones distance from them and their groups and so on. I sure most of us agree with their stance against the TRAs, which is ironic, cause obviously their ideology is just a different side of the same coin and they dont realize it and still hate them and call them out on their bullshit. Anon just agrees with them in this point too, doesnt mean she doesnt recognize the lesbophobia that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics in the first place. Even blind chicken sometimes find a corn.
I'll be honest and say I have never met a femme or butch who matches any stereotypes about them and that I think this niche subculture is being used as a caricature to brandish femmes and butches as something they're not by and large, because most lesbians who identify with those terms only do because of their style or natural personality rather than because they want to commit to a strict role. Does that mean some lesbians don't play roles? Nope. And I can also say I'm not offended by women who want to roleplay in their relationships with other women because it doesn't affect me, so long as they both chose it, even though I don't understand why. But disliking it and speaking openly about disliking it is totally acceptable on a lesbian forum and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila, based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless. Because as she said it comes down to these lesbians getting of on roleplaying, nothing more. Who cares? She obviously just thinks lesbians are an easier target to herd up and boss around for not always being feminist angels in bed than the actual oppressors and the 95% of women dating them. We're being used as scapegoats.
Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me. Her last GF wanted a highly gendered relationship, came out as stone at one point and later said she was trans (she never transitioned though). Like i said in another comment these women are most likely TIFs or NB now and rare. i mean most masc women these days ID as tomboys anyway. I mean yes you never know, but analyzing social phenomenons is normal. You cant say, never question why we do what, i mean obviously women like Jeffreys should stfu about it and have no right to say shit like that as we know its just rooted in her hate for lesbians, but people should be able to look into those dynamics.

"I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila."
I dont think anyone is aligning anything nor is anyone talking about "sexual preferences". You can agree with anyone on anything, also not everything has to have the same weight, thats the same argument as the poli lesbians use: The trannies are a physical thread and we (poli lesbians) are not and we wanna help you, so ignore that we are trash to fight the worse threat. Or completely different example, domestic abuse exist in lesbian relationships too, noone should ignore that just because its miniscule compared to the abuse women face from their male partners.
One can care about multiple things at once and should, we arent a cult and if any anon wants to discuss that she should.
I mean if you are the person that shared Jeffreys opinion about butch/femme, then you cared enough about what she thinks about it too.
Hell even Julie bindel had some sane stuff to say about prostitution, doesnt mean i will ever let her call herself a lesbian or spread her homophobia in peace.
For sure I'm not against discussion but I don't get what is being agreed with. What did Sheila say that you agree with? I assumed your sexual preferences weren't the same as those lesbians who are into roleplaying which yeah, mine aren't either. I can't tell why else you're talking about it as a negative thing besides what Sheila said which is the poilez take intent on policing and cleansing the community from anything she personally dislikes sexually, sorry for misunderstanding. I don't know how domestic violence factors in to anything consensual being discussed either.
I didnt say i agree with her, im anon #480. I do agree into looking social phenomenons, like why does butch/femme exist, what was it like historically, why do some women want a gendered relationship and so on. And lets be real, sadly our sexuality has been studied by questionable people (at best) throughout history, for better or worse, which is why im saying its okey if that anon can agree with Jeffreys on this, as long as she acknowleges that shes no friend of ours and that her attentions arent to learn something for the sake of it, but to judge and shame. Which that anon did say she knows. And yes im not into that either.
Domestic violence was me refuting what you said here: "based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless". Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#486

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 15:02
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:34
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:46
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:41
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 10:23
The butch/femme thing that polilez refer to is the very culturally specific (US) niche subcutlure with very strict gender roles, originating from BDSM.
And sorry but this dynamic is creepy and absolutely mimicking heterosexual dynamics.
It’s ok to criticize it. I’m not talking about the clothes women wear and whether they lean more masculine or feminine in their outfits (sth polilez hate too anyway).
I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day.
Did you really just say a world famous homophobe is right for her homophobic screeds, because there's nothing wrong with her criticism of a supposedly super niche subculture I've never even witnessed in real life and using it to bash lesbians? She's not really even referring to any such niche subculture, because she believes this about ALL femmes and butches inherently. While I wouldn't want to participate in BDSM or a strict gender role dynamic myself, I'm trying to understand how consensual activity lesbians do in their bedrooms is of any concern to anyone outside of it, especially a straight woman, except to polilez.
DA Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing and still hate them/denounce them and keep ones distance from them and their groups and so on. I sure most of us agree with their stance against the TRAs, which is ironic, cause obviously their ideology is just a different side of the same coin and they dont realize it and still hate them and call them out on their bullshit. Anon just agrees with them in this point too, doesnt mean she doesnt recognize the lesbophobia that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics in the first place. Even blind chicken sometimes find a corn.
I'll be honest and say I have never met a femme or butch who matches any stereotypes about them and that I think this niche subculture is being used as a caricature to brandish femmes and butches as something they're not by and large, because most lesbians who identify with those terms only do because of their style or natural personality rather than because they want to commit to a strict role. Does that mean some lesbians don't play roles? Nope. And I can also say I'm not offended by women who want to roleplay in their relationships with other women because it doesn't affect me, so long as they both chose it, even though I don't understand why. But disliking it and speaking openly about disliking it is totally acceptable on a lesbian forum and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila, based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless. Because as she said it comes down to these lesbians getting of on roleplaying, nothing more. Who cares? She obviously just thinks lesbians are an easier target to herd up and boss around for not always being feminist angels in bed than the actual oppressors and the 95% of women dating them. We're being used as scapegoats.
Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me. Her last GF wanted a highly gendered relationship, came out as stone at one point and later said she was trans (she never transitioned though). Like i said in another comment these women are most likely TIFs or NB now and rare. i mean most masc women these days ID as tomboys anyway. I mean yes you never know, but analyzing social phenomenons is normal. You cant say, never question why we do what, i mean obviously women like Jeffreys should stfu about it and have no right to say shit like that as we know its just rooted in her hate for lesbians, but people should be able to look into those dynamics.

"I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila."
I dont think anyone is aligning anything nor is anyone talking about "sexual preferences". You can agree with anyone on anything, also not everything has to have the same weight, thats the same argument as the poli lesbians use: The trannies are a physical thread and we (poli lesbians) are not and we wanna help you, so ignore that we are trash to fight the worse threat. Or completely different example, domestic abuse exist in lesbian relationships too, noone should ignore that just because its miniscule compared to the abuse women face from their male partners.
One can care about multiple things at once and should, we arent a cult and if any anon wants to discuss that she should.
I mean if you are the person that shared Jeffreys opinion about butch/femme, then you cared enough about what she thinks about it too.
Hell even Julie bindel had some sane stuff to say about prostitution, doesnt mean i will ever let her call herself a lesbian or spread her homophobia in peace.
x2 thank you that’s what I meant

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#487

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:29
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:15
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 15:02
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:34
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:46

DA Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing and still hate them/denounce them and keep ones distance from them and their groups and so on. I sure most of us agree with their stance against the TRAs, which is ironic, cause obviously their ideology is just a different side of the same coin and they dont realize it and still hate them and call them out on their bullshit. Anon just agrees with them in this point too, doesnt mean she doesnt recognize the lesbophobia that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics in the first place. Even blind chicken sometimes find a corn.
I'll be honest and say I have never met a femme or butch who matches any stereotypes about them and that I think this niche subculture is being used as a caricature to brandish femmes and butches as something they're not by and large, because most lesbians who identify with those terms only do because of their style or natural personality rather than because they want to commit to a strict role. Does that mean some lesbians don't play roles? Nope. And I can also say I'm not offended by women who want to roleplay in their relationships with other women because it doesn't affect me, so long as they both chose it, even though I don't understand why. But disliking it and speaking openly about disliking it is totally acceptable on a lesbian forum and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila, based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless. Because as she said it comes down to these lesbians getting of on roleplaying, nothing more. Who cares? She obviously just thinks lesbians are an easier target to herd up and boss around for not always being feminist angels in bed than the actual oppressors and the 95% of women dating them. We're being used as scapegoats.
Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me. Her last GF wanted a highly gendered relationship, came out as stone at one point and later said she was trans (she never transitioned though). Like i said in another comment these women are most likely TIFs or NB now and rare. i mean most masc women these days ID as tomboys anyway. I mean yes you never know, but analyzing social phenomenons is normal. You cant say, never question why we do what, i mean obviously women like Jeffreys should stfu about it and have no right to say shit like that as we know its just rooted in her hate for lesbians, but people should be able to look into those dynamics.

"I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila."
I dont think anyone is aligning anything nor is anyone talking about "sexual preferences". You can agree with anyone on anything, also not everything has to have the same weight, thats the same argument as the poli lesbians use: The trannies are a physical thread and we (poli lesbians) are not and we wanna help you, so ignore that we are trash to fight the worse threat. Or completely different example, domestic abuse exist in lesbian relationships too, noone should ignore that just because its miniscule compared to the abuse women face from their male partners.
One can care about multiple things at once and should, we arent a cult and if any anon wants to discuss that she should.
I mean if you are the person that shared Jeffreys opinion about butch/femme, then you cared enough about what she thinks about it too.
Hell even Julie bindel had some sane stuff to say about prostitution, doesnt mean i will ever let her call herself a lesbian or spread her homophobia in peace.
For sure I'm not against discussion but I don't get what is being agreed with. What did Sheila say that you agree with? I assumed your sexual preferences weren't the same as those lesbians who are into roleplaying which yeah, mine aren't either. I can't tell why else you're talking about it as a negative thing besides what Sheila said which is the poilez take intent on policing and cleansing the community from anything she personally dislikes sexually, sorry for misunderstanding. I don't know how domestic violence factors in to anything consensual being discussed either.
I didnt say i agree with her, im anon #480. I do agree into looking social phenomenons, like why does butch/femme exist, what was it like historically, why do some women want a gendered relationship and so on. And lets be real, sadly our sexuality has been studied by questionable people (at best) throughout history, for better or worse, which is why im saying its okey if that anon can agree with Jeffreys on this, as long as she acknowleges that shes no friend of ours and that her attentions arent to learn something for the sake of it, but to judge and shame. Which that anon did say she knows. And yes im not into that either.
Domestic violence was me refuting what you said here: "based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless". Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful.
Honestly you made some good points and I see what you mean now. I do think it's more like, how is butch and femme harmful? Because we all know how domestic violence is harmful but I guess I'm wondering what bother it is that some women enjoy roleplaying with eachother. Since I'm not butch or a femme into this roleplaying I don't even know if it's an act for them or if they just naturally enjoy the feeling of completing eachother which gender roles allow for, going by what was said in the quotes from these couples Sheila reacted to. I didn't really see the sadomasochism or danger in what they said outside of how Sheila interpreted it, so I'm interested in actual lesbian opinions about the problem.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#488

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:40
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:29
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:15
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 15:02
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:34


I'll be honest and say I have never met a femme or butch who matches any stereotypes about them and that I think this niche subculture is being used as a caricature to brandish femmes and butches as something they're not by and large, because most lesbians who identify with those terms only do because of their style or natural personality rather than because they want to commit to a strict role. Does that mean some lesbians don't play roles? Nope. And I can also say I'm not offended by women who want to roleplay in their relationships with other women because it doesn't affect me, so long as they both chose it, even though I don't understand why. But disliking it and speaking openly about disliking it is totally acceptable on a lesbian forum and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila, based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless. Because as she said it comes down to these lesbians getting of on roleplaying, nothing more. Who cares? She obviously just thinks lesbians are an easier target to herd up and boss around for not always being feminist angels in bed than the actual oppressors and the 95% of women dating them. We're being used as scapegoats.
Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me. Her last GF wanted a highly gendered relationship, came out as stone at one point and later said she was trans (she never transitioned though). Like i said in another comment these women are most likely TIFs or NB now and rare. i mean most masc women these days ID as tomboys anyway. I mean yes you never know, but analyzing social phenomenons is normal. You cant say, never question why we do what, i mean obviously women like Jeffreys should stfu about it and have no right to say shit like that as we know its just rooted in her hate for lesbians, but people should be able to look into those dynamics.

"I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila."
I dont think anyone is aligning anything nor is anyone talking about "sexual preferences". You can agree with anyone on anything, also not everything has to have the same weight, thats the same argument as the poli lesbians use: The trannies are a physical thread and we (poli lesbians) are not and we wanna help you, so ignore that we are trash to fight the worse threat. Or completely different example, domestic abuse exist in lesbian relationships too, noone should ignore that just because its miniscule compared to the abuse women face from their male partners.
One can care about multiple things at once and should, we arent a cult and if any anon wants to discuss that she should.
I mean if you are the person that shared Jeffreys opinion about butch/femme, then you cared enough about what she thinks about it too.
Hell even Julie bindel had some sane stuff to say about prostitution, doesnt mean i will ever let her call herself a lesbian or spread her homophobia in peace.
For sure I'm not against discussion but I don't get what is being agreed with. What did Sheila say that you agree with? I assumed your sexual preferences weren't the same as those lesbians who are into roleplaying which yeah, mine aren't either. I can't tell why else you're talking about it as a negative thing besides what Sheila said which is the poilez take intent on policing and cleansing the community from anything she personally dislikes sexually, sorry for misunderstanding. I don't know how domestic violence factors in to anything consensual being discussed either.
I didnt say i agree with her, im anon #480. I do agree into looking social phenomenons, like why does butch/femme exist, what was it like historically, why do some women want a gendered relationship and so on. And lets be real, sadly our sexuality has been studied by questionable people (at best) throughout history, for better or worse, which is why im saying its okey if that anon can agree with Jeffreys on this, as long as she acknowleges that shes no friend of ours and that her attentions arent to learn something for the sake of it, but to judge and shame. Which that anon did say she knows. And yes im not into that either.
Domestic violence was me refuting what you said here: "based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless". Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful.
Honestly you made some good points and I see what you mean now. I do think it's more like, how is butch and femme harmful? Because we all know how domestic violence is harmful but I guess I'm wondering what bother it is that some women enjoy roleplaying with eachother. Since I'm not butch or a femme into this roleplaying I don't even know if it's an act for them or if they just naturally enjoy the feeling of completing eachother which gender roles allow for, going by what was said in the quotes from these couples Sheila reacted to. I didn't really see the sadomasochism or danger in what they said outside of how Sheila interpreted it, so I'm interested in actual lesbian opinions about the problem.
DA

It's not a problem being attracted to certain women for whatever reason. Those two seem to have negative feelings because of past problems (one bringing up an ex for example) so they project onto the femme/butch women. The other one is wondering why anyone is into femme or butch women but that's just not an issue, why does anyone like anything?

There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks.

The problem here is Sheila saw a woman writing about how her gf opened a door for her and she claimed she was a into harmful kink.
Sheila used one woman to make her claims about an entire group in each topic. She's clearly trying to make scare tactics against certain lesbians, and she won because those women were forced out of the community for bs claims.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#489

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 17:24
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:40
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:29
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:15
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 15:02

Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me. Her last GF wanted a highly gendered relationship, came out as stone at one point and later said she was trans (she never transitioned though). Like i said in another comment these women are most likely TIFs or NB now and rare. i mean most masc women these days ID as tomboys anyway. I mean yes you never know, but analyzing social phenomenons is normal. You cant say, never question why we do what, i mean obviously women like Jeffreys should stfu about it and have no right to say shit like that as we know its just rooted in her hate for lesbians, but people should be able to look into those dynamics.

"I just think it's strange to align your personal sexual preferences as an actual lesbian with the very homophobic political demonisation of lesbians by radfems like Sheila."
I dont think anyone is aligning anything nor is anyone talking about "sexual preferences". You can agree with anyone on anything, also not everything has to have the same weight, thats the same argument as the poli lesbians use: The trannies are a physical thread and we (poli lesbians) are not and we wanna help you, so ignore that we are trash to fight the worse threat. Or completely different example, domestic abuse exist in lesbian relationships too, noone should ignore that just because its miniscule compared to the abuse women face from their male partners.
One can care about multiple things at once and should, we arent a cult and if any anon wants to discuss that she should.
I mean if you are the person that shared Jeffreys opinion about butch/femme, then you cared enough about what she thinks about it too.
Hell even Julie bindel had some sane stuff to say about prostitution, doesnt mean i will ever let her call herself a lesbian or spread her homophobia in peace.
For sure I'm not against discussion but I don't get what is being agreed with. What did Sheila say that you agree with? I assumed your sexual preferences weren't the same as those lesbians who are into roleplaying which yeah, mine aren't either. I can't tell why else you're talking about it as a negative thing besides what Sheila said which is the poilez take intent on policing and cleansing the community from anything she personally dislikes sexually, sorry for misunderstanding. I don't know how domestic violence factors in to anything consensual being discussed either.
I didnt say i agree with her, im anon #480. I do agree into looking social phenomenons, like why does butch/femme exist, what was it like historically, why do some women want a gendered relationship and so on. And lets be real, sadly our sexuality has been studied by questionable people (at best) throughout history, for better or worse, which is why im saying its okey if that anon can agree with Jeffreys on this, as long as she acknowleges that shes no friend of ours and that her attentions arent to learn something for the sake of it, but to judge and shame. Which that anon did say she knows. And yes im not into that either.
Domestic violence was me refuting what you said here: "based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless". Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful.
Honestly you made some good points and I see what you mean now. I do think it's more like, how is butch and femme harmful? Because we all know how domestic violence is harmful but I guess I'm wondering what bother it is that some women enjoy roleplaying with eachother. Since I'm not butch or a femme into this roleplaying I don't even know if it's an act for them or if they just naturally enjoy the feeling of completing eachother which gender roles allow for, going by what was said in the quotes from these couples Sheila reacted to. I didn't really see the sadomasochism or danger in what they said outside of how Sheila interpreted it, so I'm interested in actual lesbian opinions about the problem.
DA

It's not a problem being attracted to certain women for whatever reason. Those two seem to have negative feelings because of past problems (one bringing up an ex for example) so they project onto the femme/butch women. The other one is wondering why anyone is into femme or butch women but that's just not an issue, why does anyone like anything?

There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks.

The problem here is Sheila saw a woman writing about how her gf opened a door for her and she claimed she was a into harmful kink.
Sheila used one woman to make her claims about an entire group in each topic. She's clearly trying to make scare tactics against certain lesbians, and she won because those women were forced out of the community for bs claims.
da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections. Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful, this was literally the whole conversation, how one can clearly see that Jeffreys is in for demonization, but still one can find the topic interesting. Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#490

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 18:16
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 17:24
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:40
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:29
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:15


For sure I'm not against discussion but I don't get what is being agreed with. What did Sheila say that you agree with? I assumed your sexual preferences weren't the same as those lesbians who are into roleplaying which yeah, mine aren't either. I can't tell why else you're talking about it as a negative thing besides what Sheila said which is the poilez take intent on policing and cleansing the community from anything she personally dislikes sexually, sorry for misunderstanding. I don't know how domestic violence factors in to anything consensual being discussed either.
I didnt say i agree with her, im anon #480. I do agree into looking social phenomenons, like why does butch/femme exist, what was it like historically, why do some women want a gendered relationship and so on. And lets be real, sadly our sexuality has been studied by questionable people (at best) throughout history, for better or worse, which is why im saying its okey if that anon can agree with Jeffreys on this, as long as she acknowleges that shes no friend of ours and that her attentions arent to learn something for the sake of it, but to judge and shame. Which that anon did say she knows. And yes im not into that either.
Domestic violence was me refuting what you said here: "based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless". Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful.
Honestly you made some good points and I see what you mean now. I do think it's more like, how is butch and femme harmful? Because we all know how domestic violence is harmful but I guess I'm wondering what bother it is that some women enjoy roleplaying with eachother. Since I'm not butch or a femme into this roleplaying I don't even know if it's an act for them or if they just naturally enjoy the feeling of completing eachother which gender roles allow for, going by what was said in the quotes from these couples Sheila reacted to. I didn't really see the sadomasochism or danger in what they said outside of how Sheila interpreted it, so I'm interested in actual lesbian opinions about the problem.
DA

It's not a problem being attracted to certain women for whatever reason. Those two seem to have negative feelings because of past problems (one bringing up an ex for example) so they project onto the femme/butch women. The other one is wondering why anyone is into femme or butch women but that's just not an issue, why does anyone like anything?

There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks.

The problem here is Sheila saw a woman writing about how her gf opened a door for her and she claimed she was a into harmful kink.
Sheila used one woman to make her claims about an entire group in each topic. She's clearly trying to make scare tactics against certain lesbians, and she won because those women were forced out of the community for bs claims.
da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections. Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful, this was literally the whole conversation, how one can clearly see that Jeffreys is in for demonization, but still one can find the topic interesting. Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at.
You: "da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections."
The comments previous-

"I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism."

"that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics"

"Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me."

"Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful."

You: "Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful"

They're derailing the convo to spread their own feelings on this. We are supposed to talk about her but they keep brining up how women that dress a certain way are creepy, and harmful with zero evidence, and clear bias.

You: "Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at."

Me: "There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks."

Butch and femme history has been documented so just Google it. It's a big part of lesbian history actually.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#491

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 19:14
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 18:16
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 17:24
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:40
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:29

I didnt say i agree with her, im anon #480. I do agree into looking social phenomenons, like why does butch/femme exist, what was it like historically, why do some women want a gendered relationship and so on. And lets be real, sadly our sexuality has been studied by questionable people (at best) throughout history, for better or worse, which is why im saying its okey if that anon can agree with Jeffreys on this, as long as she acknowleges that shes no friend of ours and that her attentions arent to learn something for the sake of it, but to judge and shame. Which that anon did say she knows. And yes im not into that either.
Domestic violence was me refuting what you said here: "based on something which basically doesn't even really exist in the real world, and which is certainly not a threat to lesbians in the same way that men are a threat to women regardless". Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful.
Honestly you made some good points and I see what you mean now. I do think it's more like, how is butch and femme harmful? Because we all know how domestic violence is harmful but I guess I'm wondering what bother it is that some women enjoy roleplaying with eachother. Since I'm not butch or a femme into this roleplaying I don't even know if it's an act for them or if they just naturally enjoy the feeling of completing eachother which gender roles allow for, going by what was said in the quotes from these couples Sheila reacted to. I didn't really see the sadomasochism or danger in what they said outside of how Sheila interpreted it, so I'm interested in actual lesbian opinions about the problem.
DA

It's not a problem being attracted to certain women for whatever reason. Those two seem to have negative feelings because of past problems (one bringing up an ex for example) so they project onto the femme/butch women. The other one is wondering why anyone is into femme or butch women but that's just not an issue, why does anyone like anything?

There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks.

The problem here is Sheila saw a woman writing about how her gf opened a door for her and she claimed she was a into harmful kink.
Sheila used one woman to make her claims about an entire group in each topic. She's clearly trying to make scare tactics against certain lesbians, and she won because those women were forced out of the community for bs claims.
da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections. Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful, this was literally the whole conversation, how one can clearly see that Jeffreys is in for demonization, but still one can find the topic interesting. Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at.
You: "da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections."
The comments previous-

"I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism."

"that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics"

"Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me."

"Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful."

You: "Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful"

They're derailing the convo to spread their own feelings on this. We are supposed to talk about her but they keep brining up how women that dress a certain way are creepy, and harmful with zero evidence, and clear bias.

You: "Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at."

Me: "There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks."

Butch and femme history has been documented so just Google it. It's a big part of lesbian history actually.
"I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism."
"that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics"
"Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me."
"Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful."

NONE of these comments said its a problem, everyone was sharing their own opinions. Also lol at the bolded qoute, what has that to do with anything? Also "my GF" is not a personal negative feeling again, you are reaching and projecting something onto people thats not there. No proof that someone said what Jeffreys did was not harmful. Just repeating what you said before doesnt make a new point, im sure there are studies about why men like certain women, if you are so interested in that look it up. Clearly you are personally offended by any talk you dont like, so you project it on others.
Thats my last comment on that, dont wanna be part of you derailing this thread more, thanks for completely stoping normal conversation, because its hurt your fee fees.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#492

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 20:25
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 19:14
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 18:16
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 17:24
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 16:40


Honestly you made some good points and I see what you mean now. I do think it's more like, how is butch and femme harmful? Because we all know how domestic violence is harmful but I guess I'm wondering what bother it is that some women enjoy roleplaying with eachother. Since I'm not butch or a femme into this roleplaying I don't even know if it's an act for them or if they just naturally enjoy the feeling of completing eachother which gender roles allow for, going by what was said in the quotes from these couples Sheila reacted to. I didn't really see the sadomasochism or danger in what they said outside of how Sheila interpreted it, so I'm interested in actual lesbian opinions about the problem.
DA

It's not a problem being attracted to certain women for whatever reason. Those two seem to have negative feelings because of past problems (one bringing up an ex for example) so they project onto the femme/butch women. The other one is wondering why anyone is into femme or butch women but that's just not an issue, why does anyone like anything?

There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks.

The problem here is Sheila saw a woman writing about how her gf opened a door for her and she claimed she was a into harmful kink.
Sheila used one woman to make her claims about an entire group in each topic. She's clearly trying to make scare tactics against certain lesbians, and she won because those women were forced out of the community for bs claims.
da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections. Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful, this was literally the whole conversation, how one can clearly see that Jeffreys is in for demonization, but still one can find the topic interesting. Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at.
You: "da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections."
The comments previous-

"I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism."

"that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics"

"Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me."

"Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful."

You: "Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful"

They're derailing the convo to spread their own feelings on this. We are supposed to talk about her but they keep brining up how women that dress a certain way are creepy, and harmful with zero evidence, and clear bias.

You: "Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at."

Me: "There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks."

Butch and femme history has been documented so just Google it. It's a big part of lesbian history actually.
"I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism."
"that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics"
"Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me."
"Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful."

NONE of these comments said its a problem, everyone was sharing their own opinions. Also lol at the bolded qoute, what has that to do with anything? Also "my GF" is not a personal negative feeling again, you are reaching and projecting something onto people thats not there. No proof that someone said what Jeffreys did was not harmful. Just repeating what you said before doesnt make a new point, im sure there are studies about why men like certain women, if you are so interested in that look it up. Clearly you are personally offended by any talk you dont like, so you project it on others.
Thats my last comment on that, dont wanna be part of you derailing this thread more, thanks for completely stoping normal conversation, because its hurt your fee fees.
What you re-quoted were saying it was harmful though? The reason I quoted the gf one was because it was to back up you or the other anon were projecting your/their own problems.

The last part of your tantrum is just pointless. Just admit you're talking out of your as$.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#493

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 20:47
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 20:25
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 19:14
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 18:16
Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 17:24


DA

It's not a problem being attracted to certain women for whatever reason. Those two seem to have negative feelings because of past problems (one bringing up an ex for example) so they project onto the femme/butch women. The other one is wondering why anyone is into femme or butch women but that's just not an issue, why does anyone like anything?

There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks.

The problem here is Sheila saw a woman writing about how her gf opened a door for her and she claimed she was a into harmful kink.
Sheila used one woman to make her claims about an entire group in each topic. She's clearly trying to make scare tactics against certain lesbians, and she won because those women were forced out of the community for bs claims.
da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections. Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful, this was literally the whole conversation, how one can clearly see that Jeffreys is in for demonization, but still one can find the topic interesting. Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at.
You: "da Who said that its a problem and who said anything about negative feelings. You are disrupting a normal conversation/discussions with accusations and projections."
The comments previous-

"I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism."

"that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics"

"Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me."

"Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful."

You: "Also nobody said Jeffreys didnt do something harmful"

They're derailing the convo to spread their own feelings on this. We are supposed to talk about her but they keep brining up how women that dress a certain way are creepy, and harmful with zero evidence, and clear bias.

You: "Also who knows, maybe there are studies about straight people and their relationship dynamics, im not interested in what males do so idk, but i bet some people are, just look at the "cool girl phenomenon", which has been looked at."

Me: "There are straight men that like tomboys, the tomboy gf meme was popular not too long ago. There are tons of straight women that like feminine men.
No one jumps on them and demands research into why they're like that or makes claims they're sex freaks."

Butch and femme history has been documented so just Google it. It's a big part of lesbian history actually.
"I’m saying that butch/femme subculture (which I haven’t encountered either myself in real life so it’s really fucking niche) is creepy and worthy of criticism."
"that these women also hold and that that lesbophobia was likely the reason these women look into those relationship dynamics"
"Ad bolded, my GF actually did. Shes a high femme and dated exclusively butches before me."
"Just because something is not a threat the same way as something else (female vs male domestic violence) doesnt mean we can not discuss it or acknowledge that it might be harmful."

NONE of these comments said its a problem, everyone was sharing their own opinions. Also lol at the bolded qoute, what has that to do with anything? Also "my GF" is not a personal negative feeling again, you are reaching and projecting something onto people thats not there. No proof that someone said what Jeffreys did was not harmful. Just repeating what you said before doesnt make a new point, im sure there are studies about why men like certain women, if you are so interested in that look it up. Clearly you are personally offended by any talk you dont like, so you project it on others.
Thats my last comment on that, dont wanna be part of you derailing this thread more, thanks for completely stoping normal conversation, because its hurt your fee fees.
What you re-quoted were saying it was harmful though? The reason I quoted the gf one was because it was to back up you or the other anon were projecting your/their own problems.

The last part of your tantrum is just pointless. Just admit you're talking out of your as$.
"NONE of these comments said its a problem, everyone was sharing their own opinions."

Yes. They're saying it's a problem with no evidence. Like I said👍. Opinions can still be wrong. But if anyone got their fees fees hurt its definitely you getting mad someone didn't agree with your opinion.
If anything is derailing it's that.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#494

Post by Guest »

"I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day."
"Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing"

How is this saying that what polilez claim about lesbians is harmful? How is calling the lesbians which the political lesbians use to attack our community "creepy" (on top of agreeing with what SJ said in the above quotes) not just the same thing as saying the lesbians are the problem for something you won't explain?

You don't try to give proof or explain your position, you want it to be true and anyone who questions it gets a bunch of insults and backtracking. Funny how political lesbianism takes are suddenly fine, anyone questioning you agreeing with a political lesbian take is the problem and the cultist now but you won't back up what you said at all, you just pretend you never meant it. What nonsense.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#495

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 21:09
"I hate polilez but a broken clock a right twice a day."
"Come on now, one can agree with them on one thing"

How is this saying that what polilez claim about lesbians is harmful? How is calling the lesbians which the political lesbians use to attack our community "creepy" (on top of agreeing with what SJ said in the above quotes) not just the same thing as saying the lesbians are the problem for something you won't explain?

You don't try to give proof or explain your position, you want it to be true and anyone who questions it gets a bunch of insults and backtracking. Funny how political lesbianism takes are suddenly fine, anyone questioning you agreeing with a political lesbian take is the problem and the cultist now but you won't back up what you said at all, you just pretend you never meant it. What nonsense.
Yes! They agree with Sheila and assert that she is correct, but they offer no evidence to support their claims. They also claim Sheila is lesbophobic, but at the same time support her lol.

The previous anon re-quoted themselves and another anon saying horrible stuff but then claimed those quotes weren't saying femme/butch was bad? How can they be that idiotic or that bad at lying?

They didn't even try to counter the original post that went quote by quote debunking Sheila's nonsense.

It has to be the lowest of the low to hate butch women and butch+femme couples. Hating someone for their hairstyle or choice of clothes is an extremely stupid thing to do. They're acting like a bunch of dumb school bullies from an bad 80's movie.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#496

Post by Guest »

Has Sheila Jeffreys ever been with another woman?

Is she like Mary Daly and just celibate?

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#497

Post by Guest »

This is old but still should be included.







Terri still follows several lesbian pages on her Insta...

Hmmmm I wonder who this is about?

Guess all that comphet deconstructing didn't work

Are they still together?

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#498

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 02:08
This is old but still should be included.







Terri still follows several lesbian pages on her Insta...

Hmmmm I wonder who this is about?

Guess all that comphet deconstructing didn't work

Are they still together?
Forgot to add


Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#499

Post by Guest »

I remember Terri Strange from my Twitter days, and boy was she weird. Never followed her because of the PL BS. I doubt that anyone who understands PL is remotely surprised that she's in fact bi or straight.

Thanks for the info anon, these lies need to be exposed.

Guest
Reactions:

Re: Political Lesbians

#500

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 02:08
This is old but still should be included.







Terri still follows several lesbian pages on her Insta...

Hmmmm I wonder who this is about?

Guess all that comphet deconstructing didn't work

Are they still together?
:rofl:

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