Brandi Carlile

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#151

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Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

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T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö  "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
She'd been in a ltr before, right?

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#152

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Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

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T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
She'd been in a ltr before, right?

Yes. But it sounds like she had in the past specific beliefs on behavior being 'heterosexual' or 'tough' etc
*shrug*

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Mardou
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#153

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She was in a very long term relationship with a very butch cop during the whole time she was quietly closeted.

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#154

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Mardou wrote:She was in a very long term relationship with a very butch cop during the whole time she was quietly closeted.
interesting.
When was she quietly closeted?


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#155

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:hmmm: she said she came out at as a teenager, wasn't invited to parties.

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#156

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Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

Quote:
T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö  "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
I don't get how she thought that the renew, shampoo thing sounded heterosexual. What's the sounding tough thing about? Answers on a postcard please.

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#157

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Mardou wrote:She was in a very long term relationship with a very butch cop during the whole time she was quietly closeted.

Guess soapy sudsy stuff wasn't their thing

I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love

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#158

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

Quote:
T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
I don't get how she thought that the renew, shampoo thing sounded heterosexual. What's the sounding tough thing about? Answers on a postcard please.



not sure. It could be read like tenderness being a straight thing but I don't think that's what she meant.

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#159

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Guest wrote:
Mardou wrote:She was in a very long term relationship with a very butch cop during the whole time she was quietly closeted.

Guess soapy sudsy stuff wasn't their thing

I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love
for an ex of a long term relationship hearing a comment about needing to fall in love to understand something must be worse than the shampoo reveal

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#160

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:Great performance & audience interaction

'That's too much cologne. She likes perfume.'



"
I like how she is really enjoying herself here.
The moment at 2:02 when she spots the man in the crowd who is going to receive 'it won't be for a cowboy like you' :rofl:

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#161

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

Quote:
T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
I don't get how she thought that the renew, shampoo thing sounded heterosexual. What's the sounding tough thing about? Answers on a postcard please.

not sure. It could be read like tenderness being a straight thing but I don't think that's what she meant.
I think it was the phrasing not the act. A girly straight girl would turn to a "getting ready/appearance" type reference, a tomboy would use something else. Very insightful really.
It would be interesting to see what parallel line a tomboy like BC would write.

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#162

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

Quote:
T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
I don't get how she thought that the renew, shampoo thing sounded heterosexual. What's the sounding tough thing about? Answers on a postcard please.

not sure. It could be read like tenderness being a straight thing but I don't think that's what she meant.
I think it was the phrasing not the act. A girly straight girl would turn to a "getting ready/appearance" type reference, a tomboy would use something else. Very insightful really.
It would be interesting to see what parallel line a tomboy like BC would write.
not sure I follow what you're saying. The line is about wanting to wash someone else as a private intimate act of care and renewal. It's not about wanting to look pretty or tomboyish or wanting someone else to look pretty or tomboyish.


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#163

Post by Guest »

maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her

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#164

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

Quote:
T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
I don't get how she thought that the renew, shampoo thing sounded heterosexual. What's the sounding tough thing about? Answers on a postcard please.

not sure. It could be read like tenderness being a straight thing but I don't think that's what she meant.
I think it was the phrasing not the act. A girly straight girl would turn to a "getting ready/appearance" type reference, a tomboy would use something else. Very insightful really.
It would be interesting to see what parallel line a tomboy like BC would write.
not sure I follow what you're saying. The line is about wanting to wash someone else as a private intimate act of care and renewal. It's not about wanting to look pretty or tomboyish or wanting someone else to look pretty or tomboyish.
I said phrasing and reference. This was JM's reference, a picture. For BC it was not a reference she could internalize enough to sing comfortably. She met Katherine and her range expanded. I have a small child. My world burst open with new understandings, references, etc. That's an extreme example, but these new openings happen a lot.

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#165

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

Quote:
T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
I don't get how she thought that the renew, shampoo thing sounded heterosexual. What's the sounding tough thing about? Answers on a postcard please.

not sure. It could be read like tenderness being a straight thing but I don't think that's what she meant.
I think it was the phrasing not the act. A girly straight girl would turn to a "getting ready/appearance" type reference, a tomboy would use something else. Very insightful really.
It would be interesting to see what parallel line a tomboy like BC would write.
not sure I follow what you're saying. The line is about wanting to wash someone else as a private intimate act of care and renewal. It's not about wanting to look pretty or tomboyish or wanting someone else to look pretty or tomboyish.
I said phrasing and reference. This was JM's reference, a picture. For BC it was not a reference she could internalize enough to sing comfortably. She met Katherine and her range expanded. I have a small child. My world burst open with new understandings, references, etc. That's an extreme example, but these new openings happen a lot.
yeah it's clear that there has been some psychological shift in how she views things.

But what couldn't she internalize enough to sing comfortably - washing someone else? Was all the talk of toughness about living up to some narrow stereotype?




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#166

Post by Guest »

Don't be too literal. The phrase was a line she could not creatively make hers. Not because of toughness. A crude example: clothes. Why do you choose the clothes you do?

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#167

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:Don't be too literal.  The phrase was a line she could not creatively make hers.  Not because of toughness.  A crude example: clothes. Why do you choose the clothes you do?
^this makes no sense.
She said she had thought 'shampoo you' was too hetersexual :eyeroll:
She made statements about toughness. Catherine had to point out that women are also tough and strong in non obvious ways by playing her Little Green.

Your clothes analogy and comments on literal interpretations make no sense. Don't be too glib!

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#168

Post by Guest »



"
Cool interview.
Brandi and the twins built a pond. A big pond.

NGL wish they'd turn it into a giant sand pit/ play area until their kids are old enough to be near water hazards safely.

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#169

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:

"
Cool interview.
Brandi and the twins built a pond. A big pond.

NGL wish they'd turn it into a giant sand pit/ play area until their kids are old enough to be near water hazards safely.
Well, Brandi's wife isn't a vegetarian. Imagining her hiding her sandwich behind her back if McCartney popped over on her lunch break.

I'd be anxious about having a garden pond with young children. People who've grown up in rural areas might feel differently.

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AlexCabot
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#170

Post by AlexCabot »

Guest wrote:maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her
I met the ex at a show once or twice. She certainly was very butch but she was nice in my short interactions with her. Never saw her and Brandi interaction though so I have no idea what they were like as a couple. During that time Brandi was more subtle about her gayness and her biggest fansite didnt allow any talk of her love life so I never heard that much gossip unfortunately.

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#171

Post by Guest »

AlexCabot wrote:
Guest wrote:maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her
I met the ex at a show once or twice. She certainly was very butch but she was nice in my short interactions with her. Never saw her and Brandi interaction though so I have no idea what they were like as a couple. During that time Brandi was more subtle about her gayness and her biggest fansite didnt allow any talk of her love life so I never heard that much gossip unfortunately.
I believe her ex is active in prison reform or at least as it relates to women.

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#172

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
AlexCabot wrote:
Guest wrote:maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her
I met the ex at a show once or twice. She certainly was very butch but she was nice in my short interactions with her. Never saw her and Brandi interaction though so I have no idea what they were like as a couple. During that time Brandi was more subtle about her gayness and her biggest fansite didnt allow any talk of her love life so I never heard that much gossip unfortunately.
I believe her ex is active in prison reform or at least as it relates to women.
Da- think she did a TED talk on it.
Brandi's foundation is still involved in that prison work.

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#173

Post by Guest »

AlexCabot wrote:
Guest wrote:maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her
I met the ex at a show once or twice. She certainly was very butch but she was nice in my short interactions with her. Never saw her and Brandi interaction though so I have no idea what they were like as a couple. During that time Brandi was more subtle about her gayness and her biggest fansite didnt allow any talk of her love life so I never heard that much gossip unfortunately.
more subtle? In what way?
You knew she was Brandi's partner when you met her, not just a friend?

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#174

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:https://variety.com/2019/music/news/brandi-...all-1203371867/

Quote:
T Bone Burnett played 'Blue' for me in about 2005, and I was a young girl, and I wanted to spit and swear and cuss. And I still do all that. But didn't understand how much toughness there was in femininity." Later, after meeting her wife-to-be, Catherine Shepherd, she failed the "Blue" test again, but this time with different results. "I was like, 'Yeah, I don't love Joni Mitchell.' And Catherine's like, why the hell not? I said, 'Because I don't like the lyric "I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you." It bothers me; it's really heterosexual. She doesn't sound tough.'" A suitably aghast Shepherd, after momentarily being at a loss for words, asked her new flame if she knew what "Little Green" was about, and put it on again for Carlile ?ó?Ç?ö "and it changed my life. It didn't just change the way I view music. It changed the way I view women, and what tough means. So, when I delved into "Blue," I made up for lost time. As you can see, I'm an obsessive person," she said, resplendent in an all-blue suit.

"And now," Carlile added, "I love the lyric 'I want to renew you, I want to shampoo you.' I don't think I'd ever really had anybody shampoo me at that point in my life. I needed a little bit of falling in love."
I don't get how she thought that the renew, shampoo thing sounded heterosexual. What's the sounding tough thing about? Answers on a postcard please.

not sure. It could be read like tenderness being a straight thing but I don't think that's what she meant.
I think it was the phrasing not the act. A girly straight girl would turn to a "getting ready/appearance" type reference, a tomboy would use something else. Very insightful really.
It would be interesting to see what parallel line a tomboy like BC would write.
not sure I follow what you're saying. The line is about wanting to wash someone else as a private intimate act of care and renewal. It's not about wanting to look pretty or tomboyish or wanting someone else to look pretty or tomboyish.
I said phrasing and reference. This was JM's reference, a picture. For BC it was not a reference she could internalize enough to sing comfortably. She met Katherine and her range expanded. I have a small child. My world burst open with new understandings, references, etc. That's an extreme example, but these new openings happen a lot.
DA - Brandi wasn't interested in singing JM stuff when she made those comments. She didn't rate JM then. Being unable to 'internalize enough to simg comfortably' didn't come into it.

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#175

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
AlexCabot wrote:
Guest wrote:maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her
I met the ex at a show once or twice. She certainly was very butch but she was nice in my short interactions with her. Never saw her and Brandi interaction though so I have no idea what they were like as a couple. During that time Brandi was more subtle about her gayness and her biggest fansite didnt allow any talk of her love life so I never heard that much gossip unfortunately.
more subtle? In what way?
You knew she was Brandi's partner when you met her, not just a friend?
QMTA - should've said DA - I'm not the anon who made the original stone butch comment. Thanks for the real life info that BC's ex is nice.

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#176

Post by Guest »

I think it's a dumb lyric, through any lens, and I don't like Joni and I've been "shampooed".

But I do find it interesting how we can change so much as people that our understanding of and appreciation for various works of art can tilt onto a completely new axis and give us insight into elements that we'd previously logged as opaque and non-dimensional, and even aggravating in their presentation.

I'm, also, curious about the contractual and practical song-writing collaborations between Brandi and the Twins because I don't hear the same sort of nuance and artistic deep diving in the lyrics of the songs that make their way onto 'Brandi Carlile' albums as I hear in her interpretations of the work of others, in most of her interviews, in her own vocal work, in most of the tracks on the Tanya Tucker album, etc. The official products are often quite formulaic and, frankly, shallow. This does allow her vocals to easily shine amidst some otherwise fairly mediocre elements, but she has no need to Big Fish Little Pond on her own records so I don't quite get it, especially, since the band is now free (-ish?) of label committee constraints. Her live shows are so stupendously good and she's just so hypnotic on stage that you don't notice the short-comings in the material, in that environment. But I've tried to introduce a number of friends to her work who were only able to cotton to her when I showed them footage of her doing covers.

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#177

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:I think it's a dumb lyric, through any lens, and I don't like Joni and I've been "shampooed".

But I do find it interesting how we can change so much as people that our understanding of and appreciation for various works of art can tilt onto a completely new axis and give us insight into elements that we'd previously logged as opaque and non-dimensional, and even aggravating in their presentation.

I'm, also, curious about the contractual and practical song-writing collaborations between Brandi and the Twins because I don't hear the same sort of nuance and artistic deep diving in the lyrics of the songs that make their way onto 'Brandi Carlile' albums as I hear in her interpretations of the work of others, in most of her interviews, in her own vocal work, in most of the tracks on the Tanya Tucker album, etc. The official products are often quite formulaic and, frankly, shallow. This does allow her vocals to easily shine amidst some otherwise fairly mediocre elements, but she has no need to Big Fish Little Pond on her own records so I don't quite get it, especially, since the band is now free (-ish?) of label committee constraints. Her live shows are so stupendously good and she's just so hypnotic on stage that you don't notice the short-comings in the material, in that environment. But I've tried to introduce a number of friends to her work who were only able to cotton to her when I showed them footage of her doing covers.

Contractually - they split everything three ways irrespective of who wrote it. It's usually the songwriters who take the lion's share in a band, so it's common place for bands to fall out over who contributed riffs or lyrics. Brandi and the twins have avoided that with the splitting three ways arrangement - they don't half bang on about it in interviews though. It's mentioned ad nauseum. Sounds as though the other musicians who perform with them are paid a rate and don't get a cut.

Is it a dumb lyric really? It's not so much about the act of shampooing, which may itself be underwhelming (or not). isn't it more about expressing a desire for intimacy that isn't purely about sex?

Food for thought what you say about formulaic or shallow material versus covers. Especially as the splitting 3 ways is supposed to safeguard the music. Do you feel the same way about more recent tracks like The Joke and Party of One?

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#178

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Guest wrote:I think it's a dumb lyric, through any lens, and I don't like Joni and I've been "shampooed".

But I do find it interesting how we can change so much as people that our understanding of and appreciation for various works of art can tilt onto a completely new axis and give us insight into elements that we'd previously logged as opaque and non-dimensional, and even aggravating in their presentation.

I'm, also, curious about the contractual and practical song-writing collaborations between Brandi and the Twins because I don't hear the same sort of nuance and artistic deep diving in the lyrics of the songs that make their way onto 'Brandi Carlile' albums as I hear in her interpretations of the work of others, in most of her interviews, in her own vocal work, in most of the tracks on the Tanya Tucker album, etc. The official products are often quite formulaic and, frankly, shallow. This does allow her vocals to easily shine amidst some otherwise fairly mediocre elements, but she has no need to Big Fish Little Pond on her own records so I don't quite get it, especially, since the band is now free (-ish?) of label committee constraints. Her live shows are so stupendously good and she's just so hypnotic on stage that you don't notice the short-comings in the material, in that environment. But I've tried to introduce a number of friends to her work who were only able to cotton to her when I showed them footage of her doing covers.
I was never keen on Both Sides Now. It always seemed so chirpy and light and incongruous with the lyrics. Consequently I didn't pay much attention to the rest of her catalogue.
But then I saw Joni's 2000 version of it. Mindblowing and incredible that an artist can come back and reinterpret their own work completely differently decades later. Can't think of another artist who has been able to do this.




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#179

Post by AlexCabot »

Guest wrote:
AlexCabot wrote:
Guest wrote:maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her
I met the ex at a show once or twice. She certainly was very butch but she was nice in my short interactions with her. Never saw her and Brandi interaction though so I have no idea what they were like as a couple. During that time Brandi was more subtle about her gayness and her biggest fansite didnt allow any talk of her love life so I never heard that much gossip unfortunately.
more subtle? In what way?
You knew she was Brandi's partner when you met her, not just a friend?
She was out in Seattle but it wasnt something that was getting talked about in main stream when people wrote articles about her or interviewed her. She wasn't talking about her partner or posting pictures of them together or like PDA/handholding at shows either. I remember Trish or whatever her name is from After Ellen getting a bunch of nasty comments on a Vlog when she "outed" Brandi around the time The Story came out. A quick google found this article on After Ellen from 2009.

https://www.afterellen.com/more/61124-brand...ve-up-the-ghost

I think all the hardcore fans knew, she always had a big lesbian following, but I dont think the more casual fans were aware that much one way or the other.

I knew it was her GF because I ran in certain fandom circles back then that were close to Brandi and her family. I stood next to Brandi's mom at a show, next to her grandmother and I believe an aunt at another show, had a few lovely talks with Brandi's sister. Someone in my group of fan friends pointed Kim out to me at one of the earlier shows. Noticed her at a couple more after that, and had a few quick interactions with her like at the merch table.

Things were different back in the day like 2004-2007. I went to a lot of small shows with her where it was easy to meet everyone and have a good spot. I saw her in venues that only held like 200-600 people so it was easy to spot the regulars and all group together and chit chat. I am really thrilled she is finally getting the praise and fame she deserves while being out and happy but I do miss the days of paying like $15 for a ticket and being front row.



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#180

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:I think it's a dumb lyric, through any lens, and I don't like Joni and I've been "shampooed".

But I do find it interesting how we can change so much as people that our understanding of and appreciation for various works of art can tilt onto a completely new axis and give us insight into elements that we'd previously logged as opaque and non-dimensional, and even aggravating in their presentation.

I'm, also, curious about the contractual and practical song-writing collaborations between Brandi and the Twins because I don't hear the same sort of nuance and artistic deep diving in the lyrics of the songs that make their way onto 'Brandi Carlile' albums as I hear in her interpretations of the work of others, in most of her interviews, in her own vocal work, in most of the tracks on the Tanya Tucker album, etc. The official products are often quite formulaic and, frankly, shallow. This does allow her vocals to easily shine amidst some otherwise fairly mediocre elements, but she has no need to Big Fish Little Pond on her own records so I don't quite get it, especially, since the band is now free (-ish?) of label committee constraints. Her live shows are so stupendously good and she's just so hypnotic on stage that you don't notice the short-comings in the material, in that environment. But I've tried to introduce a number of friends to her work who were only able to cotton to her when I showed them footage of her doing covers.
Contractually - they split everything three ways irrespective of who wrote it. It's usually the songwriters who take the lion's share in a band, so it's common place for bands to fall out over who contributed riffs or lyrics. Brandi and the twins have avoided that with the splitting three ways arrangement - they don't half bang on about it in interviews though. It's mentioned ad nauseum. Sounds as though the other musicians who perform with them are paid a rate and don't get a cut.

Is it a dumb lyric really? It's not so much about the act of shampooing, which may itself be underwhelming (or not). isn't it more about expressing a desire for intimacy that isn't purely about sex?

Food for thought what you say about formulaic or shallow material versus covers. Especially as the splitting 3 ways is supposed to safeguard the music. Do you feel the same way about more recent tracks like The Joke and Party of One?
You've missed my point(s) and misunderstood my question(s), etc.

I'm curious not about their financial agreements, but their collaborative artistic agreements, as in: how many songs of which each is the primary writer are they guaranteed per record and how does that arrangement impact the quality of the work.

I think The Joke is showboaty and Party of One maudlin and find both songs to be clich and without redemptive hooks. The Joke, in particular, I find almost demeaning to her talent and career; it's the sort of song an unknown talent show contestant would sing to display every trick in her repertoire of vocal gymnastics in the four minutes she has to convince the judges to give her a shot. Carlile has more than paid her dues and anybody who has been paying any attention knows she has tremendous skill; she shouldn't need to resort to that sort of cheap firework barrage. But I guess scenery chewing is what pays (see: The Grammy's and uncountable horrific reality tv shows).

Obviously, "shampooing" is not about basic hygiene...And there are uncountable alternate metaphors, that some might find less cloying, for a love that functions (in part) as a regularized experience of tender restoration. Also, just like watch your own mouth in the mirror while singing the word "shampoo". I get why she didn't like it, y'know?

I don't know if you've spent any time with the Tanya Tucker album or not, but I find the song writing on it, mostly, quite strong and, importantly, there's a humor laced through the tracks which you see in Carlile's banter but which is nearly entirely absent from her own records.

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#181

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:I think it's a dumb lyric, through any lens, and I don't like Joni and I've been "shampooed".

But I do find it interesting how we can change so much as people that our understanding of and appreciation for various works of art can tilt onto a completely new axis and give us insight into elements that we'd previously logged as opaque and non-dimensional, and even aggravating in their presentation.

I'm, also, curious about the contractual and practical song-writing collaborations between Brandi and the Twins because I don't hear the same sort of nuance and artistic deep diving in the lyrics of the songs that make their way onto 'Brandi Carlile' albums as I hear in her interpretations of the work of others, in most of her interviews, in her own vocal work, in most of the tracks on the Tanya Tucker album, etc. The official products are often quite formulaic and, frankly, shallow. This does allow her vocals to easily shine amidst some otherwise fairly mediocre elements, but she has no need to Big Fish Little Pond on her own records so I don't quite get it, especially, since the band is now free (-ish?) of label committee constraints. Her live shows are so stupendously good and she's just so hypnotic on stage that you don't notice the short-comings in the material, in that environment. But I've tried to introduce a number of friends to her work who were only able to cotton to her when I showed them footage of her doing covers.
Contractually - they split everything three ways irrespective of who wrote it. It's usually the songwriters who take the lion's share in a band, so it's common place for bands to fall out over who contributed riffs or lyrics. Brandi and the twins have avoided that with the splitting three ways arrangement - they don't half bang on about it in interviews though. It's mentioned ad nauseum. Sounds as though the other musicians who perform with them are paid a rate and don't get a cut.

Is it a dumb lyric really? It's not so much about the act of shampooing, which may itself be underwhelming (or not). isn't it more about expressing a desire for intimacy that isn't purely about sex?

Food for thought what you say about formulaic or shallow material versus covers. Especially as the splitting 3 ways is supposed to safeguard the music. Do you feel the same way about more recent tracks like The Joke and Party of One?
You've missed my point(s) and misunderstood my question(s), etc.

I'm curious not about their financial agreements, but their collaborative artistic agreements, as in: how many songs of which each is the primary writer are they guaranteed per record and how does that arrangement impact the quality of the work.

I think The Joke is showboaty and Party of One maudlin and find both songs to be clich and without redemptive hooks. The Joke, in particular, I find almost demeaning to her talent and career; it's the sort of song an unknown talent show contestant would sing to display every trick in her repertoire of vocal gymnastics in the four minutes she has to convince the judges to give her a shot. Carlile has more than paid her dues and anybody who has been paying any attention knows she has tremendous skill; she shouldn't need to resort to that sort of cheap firework barrage. But I guess scenery chewing is what pays (see: The Grammy's and uncountable horrific reality tv shows).

Obviously, "shampooing" is not about basic hygiene...And there are uncountable alternate metaphors, that some might find less cloying, for a love that functions (in part) as a regularized experience of tender restoration. Also, just like watch your own mouth in the mirror while singing the word "shampoo". I get why she didn't like it, y'know?

I don't know if you've spent any time with the Tanya Tucker album or not, but I find the song writing on it, mostly, quite strong and, importantly, there's a humor laced through the tracks which you see in Carlile's banter but which is nearly entirely absent from her own records.
^^^Strong opinions.

Seemingly it was their producer who insisted that they write a song that went from top to bottom and had high drama (I'm paraphrasing or at least trying to give the gist). They wrote the Joke and all three got a Grammy, so they must be doing something right for someone.

I like the end section of Party of One and I think it is Brandi trying to write with some emotional honesty. I haven't found it maudlin (so far) although she did say she wrote it after an argument and alcohol (??) so you could be right. The line about secretive drinking always feels a bit unnecessary to me, but I'm not a Grammy award winning artist so what do I know?

The verse in 'I Belong To You' about dying the same day sat worse with me tbh. Why not just celebrate a healthy relationship for as long as you're fortunate to have it, rather than speculating on a far off unhealthy end (it's about jumping off a bridge isn't it or have I misinterpreted that :hmmm: anyhow major downer).

The Party of One video isn't good imo. It's like two teenage girls on a sofa and then two furious women screaming at each other. It's not something I want to watch. It seems like such a lost opportunity. It could have been so much more and so much better.

Do they have a quota of songs each? They always talk about ebb and flow and that part of sharing the proceeds equally is that all benefit even if they are in ebb rather than flow. So I took that to mean that they use the songs if the writer who happens to be in flow rather than there being any kind of quota.

I'll take your word about singing in the mirror, but again I *think* CB's initial objections stemmed from some perceptions about toughness and weakness...so any number of alternative metaphors likely would have evoked the same reaction at that point in time.

I haven't heard TT's album, did CB write on that? Interesting point about humour. Even though we don't agree on sverything I can see you've given it a lot if thought.

Which BC songs do you like as you've said you find so many shallow and formulaic?

Guest
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#182

Post by Guest »

AlexCabot wrote:
Guest wrote:
AlexCabot wrote:
Guest wrote:maybe the ex was a stone butch who didn't want brandi touching her
I met the ex at a show once or twice. She certainly was very butch but she was nice in my short interactions with her. Never saw her and Brandi interaction though so I have no idea what they were like as a couple. During that time Brandi was more subtle about her gayness and her biggest fansite didnt allow any talk of her love life so I never heard that much gossip unfortunately.
more subtle? In what way?
You knew she was Brandi's partner when you met her, not just a friend?
She was out in Seattle but it wasnt something that was getting talked about in main stream when people wrote articles about her or interviewed her. She wasn't talking about her partner or posting pictures of them together or like PDA/handholding at shows either. I remember Trish or whatever her name is from After Ellen getting a bunch of nasty comments on a Vlog when she "outed" Brandi around the time The Story came out. A quick google found this article on After Ellen from 2009.

https://www.afterellen.com/more/61124-brand...ve-up-the-ghost

I think all the hardcore fans knew, she always had a big lesbian following, but I dont think the more casual fans were aware that much one way or the other.

I knew it was her GF because I ran in certain fandom circles back then that were close to Brandi and her family. I stood next to Brandi's mom at a show, next to her grandmother and I believe an aunt at another show, had a few lovely talks with Brandi's sister. Someone in my group of fan friends pointed Kim out to me at one of the earlier shows. Noticed her at a couple more after that, and had a few quick interactions with her like at the merch table.

Things were different back in the day like 2004-2007. I went to a lot of small shows with her where it was easy to meet everyone and have a good spot. I saw her in venues that only held like 200-600 people so it was easy to spot the regulars and all group together and chit chat. I am really thrilled she is finally getting the praise and fame she deserves while being out and happy but I do miss the days of paying like $15 for a ticket and being front row.
Wow, thanks for this. So much of this is news to me, especially the part about a backlash against After Ellen for outing her. Thanks for explaining the backstory and how BC handled things in those days.

It sounds as though you got to see the band at a really great time and it's because of fans like you turning up and supporting them in the early days that they were able to continue. Pretty great and also great that you as a fan experienced a more intimate vibe and accessible band. :bowdown:

Guest
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#183

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:I think it's a dumb lyric, through any lens, and I don't like Joni and I've been "shampooed".

But I do find it interesting how we can change so much as people that our understanding of and appreciation for various works of art can tilt onto a completely new axis and give us insight into elements that we'd previously logged as opaque and non-dimensional, and even aggravating in their presentation.

I'm, also, curious about the contractual and practical song-writing collaborations between Brandi and the Twins because I don't hear the same sort of nuance and artistic deep diving in the lyrics of the songs that make their way onto 'Brandi Carlile' albums as I hear in her interpretations of the work of others, in most of her interviews, in her own vocal work, in most of the tracks on the Tanya Tucker album, etc. The official products are often quite formulaic and, frankly, shallow. This does allow her vocals to easily shine amidst some otherwise fairly mediocre elements, but she has no need to Big Fish Little Pond on her own records so I don't quite get it, especially, since the band is now free (-ish?) of label committee constraints. Her live shows are so stupendously good and she's just so hypnotic on stage that you don't notice the short-comings in the material, in that environment. But I've tried to introduce a number of friends to her work who were only able to cotton to her when I showed them footage of her doing covers.
I was never keen on Both Sides Now. It always seemed so chirpy and light and incongruous with the lyrics. Consequently I didn't pay much attention to the rest of her catalogue.
But then I saw Joni's 2000 version of it. Mindblowing and incredible that an artist can come back and reinterpret their own work completely differently decades later. Can't think of another artist who has been able to do this.



"

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#184

Post by Guest »

?ó?ÿ?Ø?»?¥?Äfirewall issues

Not to take anything away from your awe over Joni's much different performance of this song, in comparison to its original form, but I think context is relevant.

One: her voice has changed greatly over the years, from lifestyle and illness and the entropy to which we are all doomed, and any arrangement of the song was going to have to accommodate the differences in her register.

Two: I doubt she sits around listening to covers of her own tunes with much frequency, but so so so many vocalists have asked that song on a date and taken it to bed over the decades; I don't see how she could be completely unaware of all of the variations in interpretations that have been done, especially the good ones.

Three: ?ó?Ç?áI've seen many artists rearrange their own tunes in performance in such extreme ways that sometimes they're a quarter of the way in before you realize you 'know' that song -- or what you thought was that song.

Both Sides Now, obviously, lends itself to, at least, one flip side version just by its title/chorus/subject. Sometimes, like with this song, the artist seemingly finds a new dimension in their own work; other times, a song is conceived in drastic, even warring, duality and only version is released to become the official version; and, then, you have weird shit like Ani DiFranco butchering her own work to keep the audience from being able to sing along. Like identity, no art is static; even stone sculptures texturize and crumble.

I do genuinely appreciate your appreciation of and inspiration from the new choices she made with it, even though she kind of makes my skin crawl -- and that's not a Morgellon's dig.

Guest
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#185

Post by Guest »

Guest,Oct 30 2019, 10:07 PM wrote:
Guest,Oct 30 2019, 09:00 PM wrote: ^^^Strong opinions.

Seemingly it was their producer who insisted that they write a song that went from top to bottom and had high drama (I'm paraphrasing or at least trying to give the gist). They wrote the Joke and all three got a Grammy, so they must be doing something right for someone.

I like the end section of Party of One and I think it is Brandi trying to write with some emotional honesty. I haven't found it maudlin (so far) although she did say she wrote it after an argument and alcohol (??) so you could be right. The line about secretive drinking always feels a bit unnecessary to me, but I'm not a Grammy award winning artist so what do I know?

The verse in 'I Belong To You' about dying the same day sat worse with me tbh. Why not just celebrate a healthy relationship for as long as you're fortunate to have it, rather than speculating on a far off unhealthy end (it's about jumping off a bridge isn't it or have I misinterpreted that :hmmm: anyhow major downer).

The Party of One video isn't good imo. It's like two teenage girls on a sofa and then two furious women screaming at each other. It's not something I want to watch. It seems like such a lost opportunity. It could have been so much more and so much better.

Do they have a quota of songs each? They always talk about ebb and flow and that part of sharing the proceeds equally is that all benefit even if they are in ebb rather than flow. So I took that to mean that they use the songs if the writer who happens to be in flow rather than there being any kind of quota.

I'll take your word about singing in the mirror, but again I *think* CB's initial objections stemmed from some perceptions about toughness and weakness...so any number of alternative metaphors likely would have evoked the same reaction at that point in time.

I haven't heard TT's album, did CB write on that? Interesting point about humour. Even though we don't agree on sverything I can see you've given it a lot if thought.

Which BC songs do you like as you've said you find so many shallow and formulaic?
I think most of their songs are emotionally honest, even when they offer little else. And I find that relentless earnestness to, often, be quite dull. Good writers are, also, good readers and there's not much poetry in their songs.

I hate 'I Belong To You' and she has a handful of songs that are quite similar to it, these sort of half-realized love letters that don't show the writer learning anything or changing from her experiences. They really have an inordinate number of songs that contain some version of 'when I die'.

It's hard for me to align whomever it is that writes the solid bulk of the (frequently, trite and clumsily rhymed) lyrics on 'Brandi Carlile' albums with the woman who intellectually pins gentle acts of care-taking as too hetero-normative to go near, who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed, and who can, also, effortlessly segue from vaudevillian cowboy yodeling to heart-breakingly hopeless chamber orchestra covers of synth-pop songs like 'Mad World'. The latter strikes me as a much deeper, more interesting, more angular person than the former. One of them is an artist and the other...often, comes across like AI lobbing an originally decent poem through a dozen auto-translations before spitting out a misconfigured Rubik's cube of not-quite English phrasing. But it rhymes, goddamnit!

That said, I even enjoy some of their songs that I think are hack jobs. Their chanty anthems put me in a great mood and I could listen to 'What Can I Say' and 'Hard Way Home' a dozen times on repeat, even though I think they're lazy, lowest common denominator tunes. They feel good. They're PBR.

Downpour, Turpentine, That Year, Dying Day, Oh Dear, and Heart's Content are a few that I both like sonically and find much more evenly constructed, in the balance between the words, the music and the performances, than the majority of their output.

And, yes, she wrote (or co-wrote -- it's hard to say, given the split credit agreement she has with the Twins) about 2/3rds of the Tucker album.

She's had a very interesting year + of branching out into new projects and I'm looking forward to being surprised by whatever she pulls out of her hat next.

Guest
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#186

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:?ó?ÿ?Ø?»?¥?Äfirewall issues

Not to take anything away from your awe over Joni's much different performance of this song, in comparison to its original form, but I think context is relevant.

One: her voice has changed greatly over the years, from lifestyle and illness and the entropy to which we are all doomed, and any arrangement of the song was going to have to accommodate the differences in her register.

Two: I doubt she sits around listening to covers of her own tunes with much frequency, but so so so many vocalists have asked that song on a date and taken it to bed over the decades; I don't see how she could be completely unaware of all of the variations in interpretations that have been done, especially the good ones.

Three: ?ó?Ç?áI've seen many artists rearrange their own tunes in performance in such extreme ways that sometimes they're a quarter of the way in before you realize you 'know' that song -- or what you thought was that song.

Both Sides Now, obviously, lends itself to, at least, one flip side version just by its title/chorus/subject. Sometimes, like with this song, the artist seemingly finds a new dimension in their own work; other times, a song is conceived in drastic, even warring, duality and only version is released to become the official version; and, then, you have weird shit like Ani DiFranco butchering her own work to keep the audience from being able to sing along. Like identity, no art is static; even stone sculptures texturize and crumble.

I do genuinely appreciate your appreciation of and inspiration from the new choices she made with it, even though she kind of makes my skin crawl -- and that's not a Morgellon's dig.
Yes, I can see that you have a strong aversion to JM that goes beyond her not being your cup of tea.

I agree the lower register makes a difference (in a very good way) in the 2000 performance. As you say, Joan probably couldn't hit those high floaty notes she once did, but the thing is she was always capable of hitting the low notes even before 'lifestyle, illness and entropy'.

Seemingly she had a three octave range but she sang soprano whereas she how realises her natural singing voice was probably contralto all along. So she was always capable of singing in a lower register but didn't do it. I probably would have enjoyed all of her music a lot more had she sung it in a lower register. Some professional training might have steered her towards contralto, but she was self taught on everything I think.

Also the lyrics were always melancholy, in spite of the original arrangement's out of place chirpiness. It took a very long time to find the right arrangement (others' covers might have helped like you say). The fact that she was able to write music and lyrics at such a young age that could be reinterpreted in this way, and by so many people, is quite something.

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#187

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote: ^^^Strong opinions.

Seemingly it was their producer who insisted that they write a song that went from top to bottom and had high drama (I'm paraphrasing or at least trying to give the gist). They wrote the Joke and all three got a Grammy, so they must be doing something right for someone.

I like the end section of Party of One and I think it is Brandi trying to write with some emotional honesty.  I haven't found it maudlin (so far) although she did say she wrote it after an argument and alcohol (??) so you could be right. The line about secretive drinking always feels a bit unnecessary to me, but I'm not a Grammy award winning artist so what do I know?

The verse in 'I Belong To You' about dying the same day sat worse with me tbh. Why not just celebrate a healthy relationship for as long as you're fortunate to have it, rather than speculating on a far off unhealthy end (it's about jumping off a bridge  isn't it or have I misinterpreted that :hmmm:  anyhow major downer).

The Party of One video isn't good imo. It's like two teenage girls on a sofa and then two furious women screaming at each other. It's not something I want to watch. It seems like such a lost opportunity. It could have been so much more and so much better.

Do they have a quota of songs each? They always talk about ebb and flow and that part of sharing the proceeds equally is that all benefit even if they are in ebb rather than flow. So I took that to mean that they use the songs if the writer who happens to be in flow rather than there being any kind of quota.

I'll take your word about singing in the mirror, but again I *think* CB's initial objections stemmed from some perceptions about toughness and weakness...so any number of alternative metaphors likely would have evoked the same reaction at that point in time.

I haven't heard TT's album, did CB write on that? Interesting point about humour. Even though we don't agree on sverything I can see you've given it a lot if thought.

Which BC songs do you like as you've said you find so many shallow and formulaic?
I think most of their songs are emotionally honest, even when they offer little else. And I find that relentless earnestness to, often, be quite dull. Good writers are, also, good readers and there's not much poetry in their songs.

I hate 'I Belong To You' and she has a handful of songs that are quite similar to it, these sort of half-realized love letters that don't show the writer learning anything or changing from her experiences. They really have an inordinate number of songs that contain some version of 'when I die'.

It's hard for me to align whomever it is that writes the solid bulk of the (frequently, trite and clumsily rhymed) lyrics on 'Brandi Carlile' albums with the woman who intellectually pins gentle acts of care-taking as too hetero-normative to go near, who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed, and who can, also, effortlessly segue from vaudevillian cowboy yodeling to heart-breakingly hopeless chamber orchestra covers of synth-pop songs like 'Mad World'. The latter strikes me as a much deeper, more interesting, more angular person than the former. One of them is an artist and the other...often, comes across like AI lobbing an originally decent poem through a dozen auto-translations before spitting out a misconfigured Rubik's cube of not-quite English phrasing. But it rhymes, goddamnit!

That said, I even enjoy some of their songs that I think are hack jobs. Their chanty anthems put me in a great mood and I could listen to 'What Can I Say' and 'Hard Way Home' a dozen times on repeat, even though I think they're lazy, lowest common denominator tunes. They feel good. They're PBR.

Downpour, Turpentine, That Year, Dying Day, Oh Dear, and Heart's Content are a few that I both like sonically and find much more evenly constructed, in the balance between the words, the music and the performances, than the majority of their output.

And, yes, she wrote (or co-wrote -- it's hard to say, given the split credit agreement she has with the Twins) about 2/3rds of the Tucker album.

She's had a very interesting year + of branching out into new projects and I'm looking forward to being surprised by whatever she pulls out of her hat next.
So many good points in this post. Thanks for your thoughts on BC tracks. I'll make a point of paying attention to the tracks you mention.

On 'I Belong to You' i do wish she'd rewrite the verse on suicide, all the more so now that they have children. Songwriters do this, don't they? The original version of JM's shampoo song, didn't have the shampoo lyric!
Despite the romantic, heartfelt intention, suicide is not a romantic gesture.

But you might have hit the nail on the head when you said 'good writers are also good readers'. I don't know how well read any of the band are. Perhaps she could read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning and reevaluate this verse on love and loss and the most loving response to loss.

I will respond to another of your very good comments, but time doesn't allow at the moment.

Guest
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#188

Post by Guest »

Guest,Oct 31 2019, 03:19 AM wrote:
Guest,Oct 30 2019, 10:07 PM wrote:
Guest,Oct 30 2019, 09:00 PM wrote: ^^^Strong opinions.

Seemingly it was their producer who insisted that they write a song that went from top to bottom and had high drama (I'm paraphrasing or at least trying to give the gist). They wrote the Joke and all three got a Grammy, so they must be doing something right for someone.

I like the end section of Party of One and I think it is Brandi trying to write with some emotional honesty. I haven't found it maudlin (so far) although she did say she wrote it after an argument and alcohol (??) so you could be right. The line about secretive drinking always feels a bit unnecessary to me, but I'm not a Grammy award winning artist so what do I know?

The verse in 'I Belong To You' about dying the same day sat worse with me tbh. Why not just celebrate a healthy relationship for as long as you're fortunate to have it, rather than speculating on a far off unhealthy end (it's about jumping off a bridge isn't it or have I misinterpreted that :hmmm: anyhow major downer).

The Party of One video isn't good imo. It's like two teenage girls on a sofa and then two furious women screaming at each other. It's not something I want to watch. It seems like such a lost opportunity. It could have been so much more and so much better.

Do they have a quota of songs each? They always talk about ebb and flow and that part of sharing the proceeds equally is that all benefit even if they are in ebb rather than flow. So I took that to mean that they use the songs if the writer who happens to be in flow rather than there being any kind of quota.

I'll take your word about singing in the mirror, but again I *think* CB's initial objections stemmed from some perceptions about toughness and weakness...so any number of alternative metaphors likely would have evoked the same reaction at that point in time.

I haven't heard TT's album, did CB write on that? Interesting point about humour. Even though we don't agree on sverything I can see you've given it a lot if thought.

Which BC songs do you like as you've said you find so many shallow and formulaic?
I think most of their songs are emotionally honest, even when they offer little else. And I find that relentless earnestness to, often, be quite dull. Good writers are, also, good readers and there's not much poetry in their songs.

I hate 'I Belong To You' and she has a handful of songs that are quite similar to it, these sort of half-realized love letters that don't show the writer learning anything or changing from her experiences. They really have an inordinate number of songs that contain some version of 'when I die'.

It's hard for me to align whomever it is that writes the solid bulk of the (frequently, trite and clumsily rhymed) lyrics on 'Brandi Carlile' albums with the woman who intellectually pins gentle acts of care-taking as too hetero-normative to go near, who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed, and who can, also, effortlessly segue from vaudevillian cowboy yodeling to heart-breakingly hopeless chamber orchestra covers of synth-pop songs like 'Mad World'. The latter strikes me as a much deeper, more interesting, more angular person than the former. One of them is an artist and the other...often, comes across like AI lobbing an originally decent poem through a dozen auto-translations before spitting out a misconfigured Rubik's cube of not-quite English phrasing. But it rhymes, goddamnit!

That said, I even enjoy some of their songs that I think are hack jobs. Their chanty anthems put me in a great mood and I could listen to 'What Can I Say' and 'Hard Way Home' a dozen times on repeat, even though I think they're lazy, lowest common denominator tunes. They feel good. They're PBR.

Downpour, Turpentine, That Year, Dying Day, Oh Dear, and Heart's Content are a few that I both like sonically and find much more evenly constructed, in the balance between the words, the music and the performances, than the majority of their output.

And, yes, she wrote (or co-wrote -- it's hard to say, given the split credit agreement she has with the Twins) about 2/3rds of the Tucker album.

She's had a very interesting year + of branching out into new projects and I'm looking forward to being surprised by whatever she pulls out of her hat next.
Re 'whomever writes' they share the proceeds equally but the writing credits are given as standard.

Re the songs you mention

Downpour - BC
Turpentine - BC
That Year - BC
Dying Day - TH
Oh Dear - PH & BC
Heart's content :hmmm:
What Can I Say - TH
Hard Way Home - :hmmm:

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#189

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote: ^^^Strong opinions.

Seemingly it was their producer who insisted that they write a song that went from top to bottom and had high drama (I'm paraphrasing or at least trying to give the gist). They wrote the Joke and all three got a Grammy, so they must be doing something right for someone.

I like the end section of Party of One and I think it is Brandi trying to write with some emotional honesty.  I haven't found it maudlin (so far) although she did say she wrote it after an argument and alcohol (??) so you could be right. The line about secretive drinking always feels a bit unnecessary to me, but I'm not a Grammy award winning artist so what do I know?

The verse in 'I Belong To You' about dying the same day sat worse with me tbh. Why not just celebrate a healthy relationship for as long as you're fortunate to have it, rather than speculating on a far off unhealthy end (it's about jumping off a bridge  isn't it or have I misinterpreted that :hmmm:  anyhow major downer).

The Party of One video isn't good imo. It's like two teenage girls on a sofa and then two furious women screaming at each other. It's not something I want to watch. It seems like such a lost opportunity. It could have been so much more and so much better.

Do they have a quota of songs each? They always talk about ebb and flow and that part of sharing the proceeds equally is that all benefit even if they are in ebb rather than flow. So I took that to mean that they use the songs if the writer who happens to be in flow rather than there being any kind of quota.

I'll take your word about singing in the mirror, but again I *think* CB's initial objections stemmed from some perceptions about toughness and weakness...so any number of alternative metaphors likely would have evoked the same reaction at that point in time.

I haven't heard TT's album, did CB write on that? Interesting point about humour. Even though we don't agree on sverything I can see you've given it a lot if thought.

Which BC songs do you like as you've said you find so many shallow and formulaic?
I think most of their songs are emotionally honest, even when they offer little else. And I find that relentless earnestness to, often, be quite dull. Good writers are, also, good readers and there's not much poetry in their songs.

I hate 'I Belong To You' and she has a handful of songs that are quite similar to it, these sort of half-realized love letters that don't show the writer learning anything or changing from her experiences. They really have an inordinate number of songs that contain some version of 'when I die'.

It's hard for me to align whomever it is that writes the solid bulk of the (frequently, trite and clumsily rhymed) lyrics on 'Brandi Carlile' albums with the woman who intellectually pins gentle acts of care-taking as too hetero-normative to go near, who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed, and who can, also, effortlessly segue from vaudevillian cowboy yodeling to heart-breakingly hopeless chamber orchestra covers of synth-pop songs like 'Mad World'. The latter strikes me as a much deeper, more interesting, more angular person than the former. One of them is an artist and the other...often, comes across like AI lobbing an originally decent poem through a dozen auto-translations before spitting out a misconfigured Rubik's cube of not-quite English phrasing. But it rhymes, goddamnit!

That said, I even enjoy some of their songs that I think are hack jobs. Their chanty anthems put me in a great mood and I could listen to 'What Can I Say' and 'Hard Way Home' a dozen times on repeat, even though I think they're lazy, lowest common denominator tunes. They feel good. They're PBR.

Downpour, Turpentine, That Year, Dying Day, Oh Dear, and Heart's Content are a few that I both like sonically and find much more evenly constructed, in the balance between the words, the music and the performances, than the majority of their output.

And, yes, she wrote (or co-wrote -- it's hard to say, given the split credit agreement she has with the Twins) about 2/3rds of the Tucker album.

She's had a very interesting year + of branching out into new projects and I'm looking forward to being surprised by whatever she pulls out of her hat next.
Re 'whomever writes' they share the proceeds equally but the writing credits are given as standard.

Re the songs you mention

Downpour - BC
Turpentine - BC
That Year - BC
Dying Day - TH
Oh Dear - PH & BC
Heart's content :hmmm:
What Can I Say - TH
Hard Way Home - :hmmm:
QMTF

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#190

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Updated list

Downpour - BC
Turpentine - BC
That Year - BC
Dying Day - TH
Oh Dear - PH & BC
Heart's content - BC
What Can I Say - TH
Hard Way Home - TH, BC & PH

I Belong to You - BC

Party of One BC, PH & TH
The Joke - BC, PH, TH & Dave Cobb

(Looks like they may have changed how they credit the work as every track on their last album is credited to all three unlike earlier album tracks.)

Honourable mention for a song I like

I Will - BC

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#191

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Guest wrote:
I think most of their songs are emotionally honest, even when they offer little else. And I find that relentless earnestness to, often, be quite dull. Good writers are, also, good readers and there's not much poetry in their songs.

I hate 'I Belong To You' and she has a handful of songs that are quite similar to it, these sort of half-realized love letters that don't show the writer learning anything or changing from her experiences. They really have an inordinate number of songs that contain some version of 'when I die'.

It's hard for me to align whomever it is that writes the solid bulk of the (frequently, trite and clumsily rhymed) lyrics on 'Brandi Carlile' albums with the woman who intellectually pins gentle acts of care-taking as too hetero-normative to go near, who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed, and who can, also, effortlessly segue from vaudevillian cowboy yodeling to heart-breakingly hopeless chamber orchestra covers of synth-pop songs like 'Mad World'. The latter strikes me as a much deeper, more interesting, more angular person than the former. One of them is an artist and the other...often, comes across like AI lobbing an originally decent poem through a dozen auto-translations before spitting out a misconfigured Rubik's cube of not-quite English phrasing. But it rhymes, goddamnit!

That said, I even enjoy some of their songs that I think are hack jobs. Their chanty anthems put me in a great mood and I could listen to 'What Can I Say' and 'Hard Way Home' a dozen times on repeat, even though I think they're lazy, lowest common denominator tunes. They feel good. They're PBR.

Downpour, Turpentine, That Year, Dying Day, Oh Dear, and Heart's Content are a few that I both like sonically and find much more evenly constructed, in the balance between the words, the music and the performances, than the majority of their output.

And, yes, she wrote (or co-wrote -- it's hard to say, given the split credit agreement she has with the Twins) about 2/3rds of the Tucker album.

She's had a very interesting year + of branching out into new projects and I'm looking forward to being surprised by whatever she pulls out of her hat next.
para in bold - very interesting comment

Regarding your remark

'who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed'

The line 'I see the world the exact same way that you do' (I Belong to You) , speaks to a desire to see the world the same way as the woman she is in love with ( even though that is impossible).

So a desire not to dislike (or loathe) an artist loved by the woman she loves appears to be the impetus for exploring and beginning to love JM's work.

There would be cognitive dissonance in disliking JM's work and the belief 'I see the world the exact same way that you do'.


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#192

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#193

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"
Before her sis Tiffany did Brandi's hair, Phil helped Brandi out.

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#194

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
I think most of their songs are emotionally honest, even when they offer little else. And I find that relentless earnestness to, often, be quite dull. Good writers are, also, good readers and there's not much poetry in their songs.

I hate 'I Belong To You' and she has a handful of songs that are quite similar to it, these sort of half-realized love letters that don't show the writer learning anything or changing from her experiences. They really have an inordinate number of songs that contain some version of 'when I die'.

It's hard for me to align whomever it is that writes the solid bulk of the (frequently, trite and clumsily rhymed) lyrics on 'Brandi Carlile' albums with the woman who intellectually pins gentle acts of care-taking as too hetero-normative to go near, who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed, and who can, also, effortlessly segue from vaudevillian cowboy yodeling to heart-breakingly hopeless chamber orchestra covers of synth-pop songs like 'Mad World'. The latter strikes me as a much deeper, more interesting, more angular person than the former. One of them is an artist and the other...often, comes across like AI lobbing an originally decent poem through a dozen auto-translations before spitting out a misconfigured Rubik's cube of not-quite English phrasing. But it rhymes, goddamnit!

That said, I even enjoy some of their songs that I think are hack jobs. Their chanty anthems put me in a great mood and I could listen to 'What Can I Say' and 'Hard Way Home' a dozen times on repeat, even though I think they're lazy, lowest common denominator tunes. They feel good. They're PBR.

Downpour, Turpentine, That Year, Dying Day, Oh Dear, and Heart's Content are a few that I both like sonically and find much more evenly constructed, in the balance between the words, the music and the performances, than the majority of their output.

And, yes, she wrote (or co-wrote -- it's hard to say, given the split credit agreement she has with the Twins) about 2/3rds of the Tucker album.

She's had a very interesting year + of branching out into new projects and I'm looking forward to being surprised by whatever she pulls out of her hat next.
para in bold - very interesting comment

Regarding your remark

'who devotes herself to exploring and mastering work she once loathed'

The line 'I see the world the exact same way that you do' (I Belong to You) , speaks to a desire to see the world the same way as the woman she is in love with ( even though that is impossible).

So a desire not to dislike (or loathe) an artist loved by the woman she loves appears to be the impetus for exploring and beginning to love JM's work.

There would be cognitive dissonance in disliking JM's work and the belief 'I see the world the exact same way that you do'.
So basically Brandi's wife was really into Joni, so
Brandi wanted to be into Joni too. :hmmm:

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#195

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Sweet, sweet, sweet :love:




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#196

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:

"
Before her sis Tiffany did Brandi's hair, Phil helped Brandi out.
Or Tim

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#197

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote:Updated list

Downpour - BC
Turpentine - BC
That Year - BC
Dying Day - TH
Oh Dear - PH & BC
Heart's content  - BC
What Can I Say - TH
Hard Way Home - TH, BC & PH

I Belong to You - BC

Party of One BC, PH & TH
The Joke - BC, PH, TH & Dave Cobb

(Looks like they may have changed how they credit the work as every track on their last album is credited to all three unlike earlier album tracks.)

Honourable mention for a song I like

I Will - BC
^^^^ Has Brandi written most of their songs?

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#198

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Guest wrote:Sweet, sweet, sweet      :love:



"
adorable that they did this at a gig

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#199

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"

With KT Tunstall. A gem

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#200

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Guest wrote:
I'm, also, curious about the contractual and practical song-writing collaborations between Brandi and the Twins because I don't hear the same sort of nuance and artistic deep diving in the lyrics of the songs that make their way onto 'Brandi Carlile' albums as I hear in her interpretations of the work of others, in most of her interviews, in her own vocal work, in most of the tracks on the Tanya Tucker album, etc. .


This interview says that Tim is the most prolific writer and Phil writes the least. Brandi writes sporadically.

Most of All, Sugartube are Phil's
The Mother is Brandi's



"


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