Transsexuals
-
- Member
- Reactions: 18
- Posts: 295
- Joined: 22 Sep 2018, 23:22
Transsexuals
Hijacking this original post.
This original post was made in 2012. Due to the thread rising in popularity there needs to be some clarification to help users out.
1. No death threats allowed. This violates the board's TOS.
2. If containing 2+ images from twitter or elsewhere please put your content behind spoiler tags.
3. DO NOT POST NSFW PICS this too violates the TOS and just we don't need to see that.
4. Take your left/right arguing to the US politics thread.
5. This is a space given to funnel a majority of the site's trans talk. As such folks can within reason discuss the issues the trans community has on the lesbian community. Calling people 'transphobes' or 'terfs' is considered trolling here.
6. Don't discuss other threads and their moderation. If you have issues with a site member or mod, please go to the Complaints thread. It is a honeypot for OT to discuss that here.
This thread is a dumping ground for this topic to try to halt it overtaking other TLC threads. Reports from this thread might be done by moderators/staff that do not post in this thread. Please keep that in mind when you post.
7. ...if you're with/married to a man and talk about it that counts as het talk here. Not the thread or website for you.
8. Your favorite celeb/singer/actress might be mentioned here. Either get thicker skin or be open to the critics. Obsessive stanning will derail the thread and result in a ban.
Originally posted on 2012-06-08 23:13:00
This original post was made in 2012. Due to the thread rising in popularity there needs to be some clarification to help users out.
1. No death threats allowed. This violates the board's TOS.
2. If containing 2+ images from twitter or elsewhere please put your content behind spoiler tags.
3. DO NOT POST NSFW PICS this too violates the TOS and just we don't need to see that.
4. Take your left/right arguing to the US politics thread.
5. This is a space given to funnel a majority of the site's trans talk. As such folks can within reason discuss the issues the trans community has on the lesbian community. Calling people 'transphobes' or 'terfs' is considered trolling here.
6. Don't discuss other threads and their moderation. If you have issues with a site member or mod, please go to the Complaints thread. It is a honeypot for OT to discuss that here.
This thread is a dumping ground for this topic to try to halt it overtaking other TLC threads. Reports from this thread might be done by moderators/staff that do not post in this thread. Please keep that in mind when you post.
7. ...if you're with/married to a man and talk about it that counts as het talk here. Not the thread or website for you.
8. Your favorite celeb/singer/actress might be mentioned here. Either get thicker skin or be open to the critics. Obsessive stanning will derail the thread and result in a ban.
Originally posted on 2012-06-08 23:13:00
1
1
Transsexual lands a role of a real woman, when actresses already are discriminated and don't have enough roles. That's progress! Back to middle ages when male actors played women.
https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/culture/117534/t...gendered-woman/
https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/culture/117534/t...gendered-woman/
- Just A Bertha
- Member
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 38
- Joined: 06 Jan 2019, 08:04
no you're the stupid one , sex-segregated spaces are meant to be...well, sex-segregated spaces, if i were part of my country's military i wouldn't want to be around "woman" identified males, ever ^o)Guest wrote:Stupid ban. This is actual discrimination and I'm against it.Shelby wrote:The transgender military ban has actually gone into effect. I'm actually surprised it's happened.
They can create a third gender segregated space. I never said that women need to be grouped with trans. What's wrong is denying job opportunists for transpeople. That's the real discrimination. Women wanting to keep segregation from other groups is not discrimination, this is I'm trying to say.Just A Bertha wrote:no you're the stupid one , sex-segregated spaces are meant to be...well, sex-segregated spaces, if i were part of my country's military i wouldn't want to be around "woman" identified males, ever ^o)Guest wrote:Stupid ban. This is actual discrimination and I'm against it.Shelby wrote:The transgender military ban has actually gone into effect. I'm actually surprised it's happened.
- Just A Bertha
- Member
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 38
- Joined: 06 Jan 2019, 08:04
but TIMs don't want a 3rd space, they want to be lumped together with us because ~ID~, you can give them 3rd spaces all you want and they still will want oursGuest wrote:They can create a third gender segregated space. I never said that women need to be grouped with trans. What's wrong is denying job opportunists for transpeople. That's the real discrimination. Women wanting to keep segregation from other groups is not discrimination, this is I'm trying to say.Just A Bertha wrote:no you're the stupid one , sex-segregated spaces are meant to be...well, sex-segregated spaces, if i were part of my country's military i wouldn't want to be around "woman" identified males, ever ^o)Guest wrote:Stupid ban. This is actual discrimination and I'm against it.Shelby wrote:The transgender military ban has actually gone into effect. I'm actually surprised it's happened.
My understanding is that the reason for the ban is at least partly financial. That people are joining up so that they can force the service to pay for their surgeries and hormones and as such they aren't joining to serve the country in good faith.
I could be wrong and I'm sure there's more to it, but really in the long run this will be used as proof to leverage more rights for Ts and trampling ours in the long run. It's no coincidence that AOC was raising money for Mermaids this week. It's all just about political leverage and the pendulum swinging this way for the moment will only mean a wider swing in the opposite direction as the tide turns.
I could be wrong and I'm sure there's more to it, but really in the long run this will be used as proof to leverage more rights for Ts and trampling ours in the long run. It's no coincidence that AOC was raising money for Mermaids this week. It's all just about political leverage and the pendulum swinging this way for the moment will only mean a wider swing in the opposite direction as the tide turns.
"I'm meeting a gender critical woman for a drink. She's just sent me this picture from the unisex toilet of the establishment we're going to. Neither of us put it there and we're both ecstatic"
https://twitter.com/APatchOnCinamon/status/...0913428480?s=17
DA. You're right that this will probably end up hurting us even more later.Guest wrote:My understanding is that the reason for the ban is at least partly financial. That people are joining up so that they can force the service to pay for their surgeries and hormones and as such they aren't joining to serve the country in good faith.
I could be wrong and I'm sure there's more to it, but really in the long run this will be used as proof to leverage more rights for Ts and trampling ours in the long run. It's no coincidence that AOC was raising money for Mermaids this week. It's all just about political leverage and the pendulum swinging this way for the moment will only mean a wider swing in the opposite direction as the tide turns.
I don't think there should be discrimination against anyone when it comes to basic rights like employment or housing but I also think sex is real and trans identified men are still men. So if the trans want to be in the military and serve with the rest of the men that's fine, otherwise it creates a hostile environment for women in the military who have no recourse when it comes to facilities.
This is cool, if they try to silence us, we will still find the ways how to speak.Guest wrote:
"I'm meeting a gender critical woman for a drink. She's just sent me this picture from the unisex toilet of the establishment we're going to. Neither of us put it there and we're both ecstatic"
https://twitter.com/APatchOnCinamon/status/...0913428480?s=17
I'm just not sure if women who don't know much about transgenders will understand what it's all about. Also many women are huge men lovers and will dismiss it simply because males are painted so badly in this leaflet.
I was in the original thread because I wanted to see the reaction at the time (2012) to the OP and in the second page comes this:
<!--QuoteBegin-"Guest"+<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1' id='QUOTE-WRAP'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Guest")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin
<!--QuoteBegin-"Guest"+<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1' id='QUOTE-WRAP'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Guest")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBeginI predict 5 yrs from now
transgender rights will be #1 for the LGBT movement and the Lesbian/Gays will be push aside..
It's already beginning..[/quote]
x2 and that goes double for whats left of feminism.
[/quote]
This was in 2012! I guess it's probably worse than they predicted.
<!--QuoteBegin-"Guest"+<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1' id='QUOTE-WRAP'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Guest")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin
<!--QuoteBegin-"Guest"+<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1' id='QUOTE-WRAP'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Guest")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBeginI predict 5 yrs from now
transgender rights will be #1 for the LGBT movement and the Lesbian/Gays will be push aside..
It's already beginning..[/quote]
x2 and that goes double for whats left of feminism.
[/quote]
This was in 2012! I guess it's probably worse than they predicted.
I was involved with a girl who felt she should have been born a man. She didn't understand that becoming a guy made her undesirable to me. I make six figures and she wanted me to cover a surgical procedure. When I said no, she relocated did the tops off procedure, hormones and legally changed her name. We lost direct contact but I have remained in the loop via a mutual friend. I viewed recent video footage and her voice sounded weird like she swallowed helium but it lowered her voice. She's losing her hair, weight and pumped up her arms but still has womanly hips. She's short for a guy (you don't get taller with hormones) and has started wearing lifts.GUEST_USER wrote:I have to admit it confuses me and would like the views of anyone who has an opinion on this subject. Here are a few things I have trouble with:
Transsexuals feel they were born the wrong sex and that their minds don't correspond with their body but how can they feel like they should've been born the opposite sex if they have no experience of actually BEING the opposite sex? That's like me saying I feel like a cat despite being human and having no experience of being a cat, is it not? The difference is I would be institutionalized if I said I believe I'm supposed to be a cat.
At gay events and in my daily travels I've come across many transsexual individuals, I can almost always tell they're not biologically the sex they're presenting themselves as. MTFs are often very tall with muscular builds and FTMs are often very short with feminine figures, surely if they were meant to be born the opposite sex their aesthetic would be more typically masculine (for FTMs) and more typically feminine (for MTFs) but even after their various surgical procedures I can still tell they're transsexuals, most do not "pass". This to me suggests that they weren't supposed to be the opposite sex despite the fact they're convinced and want to convince everyone else otherwise.
Also, after transitioning (or "post-op") MTFs and FTMs still exhibit traits of their biological sex, I was recently watching a video of an FTM and his hand gestures and speech pattern was very feminine, if "he" was meant to be a man than surely such feminine traits wouldn't be so glaringly apparent? MTFs, despite how overly feminine they dress e.g. tons of make up, dresses, high heels etc. still have male posture (this is a giveaway for me and how I usually spot them when I see them in the street).
I know this is controversial but I don't believe transsexualism truly exists, yes I know some of you are going to tell me many people don't believe homosexuality exists but that's a whole different ballgame, homosexuality is present in thousands of animal species, the same cannot be said for transsexualism. Also, needless to say, homosexuality does not involve altering/mutilating our bodies in any way, merely being attracted to our own sex.
I believe transsexuals are just people who don't fit into stereotypical gender roles (butch women and effeminate men) so as opposed to just living as their biological sex and deviating from gender norms they opt to "change" their sex because like it or not, living as a transsexual individual is easier and will result in less negative attention than living as your own biological sex but acting effeminately (if you're a man) or being butch (if you're a woman). I also think this is why there are more MTFs than FTMs, males are bullied mercilessly for failing to "be a man" due to the misogyny in society that being like a woman in any way equals being weak, worthless etc., whereas although butch women are frowned upon, emulating men is not seen anywhere near as bad as emulating women if you're a man.
Originally posted on 2012-06-08 23:13:00
This may piss people off and I hate to admit this but I am completely turned off by the new him. She does not look like a real man or woman and has mutilated her body. Half of the hair on her head has fallen out since she started taking the hormones. According to our mutual friend she is no longer bubbly and confident. She worries that people do not think she's a man. I don't think this change is going to fulfill her dreams of becoming a man. The science is not there. She wants to date women but the woman she has attempted to date want a real man with a real p----. I think had she accepted herself and lived as her gender norm she would have been happier but all of the stories she was reading convinced her that becoming trans would make her happy. For some, the promises of the trans movement are really a bait and switch reality.
Lets all run off and join the circus of freaks.
(I don't accept that I feel different. I don't accept I was born this way).
Idiots!!!! Everyone feels different in one way or another. We are all made to be individual from each other. The true issue is not accepting yourself (the hell with, if no one else accepts you, what do they know?)
I will never, EVER date or have a relationship with a trannie & they need to hear that more! I don't think in our community that they are. Transitioning cuts off having a real loving relationship from either sex. Non-thinking idiots! Only people benefiting are Doctors making up new diagnoses, drugs & surgeries. Trannies have huge suicidal issues as well.
(I don't accept that I feel different. I don't accept I was born this way).
Idiots!!!! Everyone feels different in one way or another. We are all made to be individual from each other. The true issue is not accepting yourself (the hell with, if no one else accepts you, what do they know?)
I will never, EVER date or have a relationship with a trannie & they need to hear that more! I don't think in our community that they are. Transitioning cuts off having a real loving relationship from either sex. Non-thinking idiots! Only people benefiting are Doctors making up new diagnoses, drugs & surgeries. Trannies have huge suicidal issues as well.
That's not a controversial statement if you go by what straight people or gay men believe. The only real target of this is lesbians because only we can validate the fantasies of these delusional men.Guest wrote:This may piss people off and I hate to admit this but I am completely turned off by the new him. She does not look like a real man or woman and has mutilated her body. Half of the hair on her head has fallen out since she started taking the hormones. According to our mutual friend she is no longer bubbly and confident. She worries that people do not think she's a man. I don't think this change is going to fulfill her dreams of becoming a man. The science is not there. She wants to date women but the woman she has attempted to date want a real man with a real p----. I think had she accepted herself and lived as her gender norm she would have been happier but all of the stories she was reading convinced her that becoming trans would make her happy. For some, the promises of the trans movement are really a bait and switch reality.
The trans cult needed young people to bolster the acceptance of the older men who actually run things (it's seen as more acceptable if they were "born that way"). Women's rights are being trampled and a whole generation of gay kids has been sold out in pursuit of appeasing these men and a medical industry who see this new gay conversion therapy as the cash cow to end all cash cows.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/jap...irement-n962721Japan's Supreme Court has upheld a law that effectively requires transgender people to be sterilized before they can have their gender changed on official documents.
The court said the law is constitutional because it was meant to reduce confusion in families and society. But it acknowledged that it restricts freedom and could become out of step with changing social values.
The 2004 law states that people wishing to register a gender change must have their original reproductive organs, including testes or ovaries, removed and have a body that "appears to have parts that resemble the genital organs" of the gender they want to register.
It could be good for those rapist trans womenGuest wrote:https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/jap...irement-n962721Japan's Supreme Court has upheld a law that effectively requires transgender people to be sterilized before they can have their gender changed on official documents.
The court said the law is constitutional because it was meant to reduce confusion in families and society. But it acknowledged that it restricts freedom and could become out of step with changing social values.
The 2004 law states that people wishing to register a gender change must have their original reproductive organs, including testes or ovaries, removed and have a body that "appears to have parts that resemble the genital organs" of the gender they want to register.
They're misrepresenting it as "sterilization".Guest wrote:It could be good for those rapist trans womenGuest wrote:https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/jap...irement-n962721Japan's Supreme Court has upheld a law that effectively requires transgender people to be sterilized before they can have their gender changed on official documents.
The court said the law is constitutional because it was meant to reduce confusion in families and society. But it acknowledged that it restricts freedom and could become out of step with changing social values.
The 2004 law states that people wishing to register a gender change must have their original reproductive organs, including testes or ovaries, removed and have a body that "appears to have parts that resemble the genital organs" of the gender they want to register.
The law says that if you want to change your registered gender you need the closest thing to genitals of that gender so to do that you have to get sex reassignment surgery (I guess they think suddenly having a bunch of "ladies" with penises and sperm producing testicles in their public women's baths and restrooms could be dangerous, go figure) and a side affect of that is you can't have children, because you're not a real man/woman.
Yeah, in my country we also have single sex bath houses. I imagine how they will lose all the clients the moment men in dresses would be allowed in. On the other hand, old badass ladies would just kick them out by force, and those trannies would never in their life want to return.Guest wrote:Japan has many single sex naked bathing facilities. No Japanese woman wants to go to a bath house and see some haggard piece of meat swinging between the legs of a creature in a bad wig and ugly make-up.
DA Don't know which country you are talking about, but it would be exactly the same in mine.Guest wrote: Yeah, in my country we also have single sex bath houses. I imagine how they will lose all the clients the moment men in dresses would be allowed in. On the other hand, old badass ladies would just kick them out by force, and those trannies would never in their life want to return.
I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Is transracial a thing?Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
How about just accepting that men can have diverse brains, instead of claiming certain brains are male, and certain brains are not male enough. Because what? If a man is not good in math, then he has female brains? That is the kind of misogynistic bullshit they are promoting.Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Does this man have a "lady brain"?
Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Stop acting like there is any scientific consensus on this subject. There are just as many studies showing the opposite. It's all just guesswork at this point, and gender-critical science is actively being suppressed.
For a scientist you really lack critical thinking skills.
Did I talk about characteristics? No. I said brain STRUCTURE. That has nothing to do with intelligence or misogyny. Are we also going to say that men produce just as much estrogen as women? Because saying women produce more would be misogynistic, wouldn't it? Calling out physical differences is not misogynistic. Using these differences to make judgements about capabilities is what is misogynistic ?»?¥?ÅGuest wrote:How about just accepting that men can have diverse brains, instead of claiming certain brains are male, and certain brains are not male enough. Because what? If a man is not good in math, then he has female brains? That is the kind of misogynistic bullshit they are promoting.Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
x2 I don't think OP realizes that some of us used to be 100% supportive of the trans community.Guest wrote:Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Stop acting like there is any scientific consensus on this subject. There are just as many studies showing the opposite. It's all just guesswork at this point, and gender-critical science is actively being suppressed.
For a scientist you really lack critical thinking skills.
"So I listen to what they say" that's nice, but that's exactly what made me peak trans.
Never said there was scientific consensus. I was talking about studies and theories. If someone thinks that this implies scientific consensus then that's on them.Guest wrote:Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Stop acting like there is any scientific consensus on this subject. There are just as many studies showing the opposite. It's all just guesswork at this point, and gender-critical science is actively being suppressed.
For a scientist you really lack critical thinking skills.
what his story she want to be a women?Guest wrote:Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Does this man have a "lady brain"?
You called it "the science behind it", so yeah, you much pretty presented it as fact.Guest wrote:Never said there was scientific consensus. I was talking about studies and theories. If someone thinks that this implies scientific consensus then that's on them.Guest wrote:Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Stop acting like there is any scientific consensus on this subject. There are just as many studies showing the opposite. It's all just guesswork at this point, and gender-critical science is actively being suppressed.
For a scientist you really lack critical thinking skills.
OOh, yay! A "cis" lesbian. I have questions! *cracks knuckles*
First of all, as a "scientist" do you not think that even if the distinctions in the brains you describe were real, or provable, that does not mean it's true in the case of every person who claims to be trans"gendered". Every actual transsexual I know is furious over the current colonization of their identity. And if there were those distinctions in the mind, wouldn't it apply mainly to those with actual body dysphoria? Not just people who like to wear dresses or get turned on at the thought of being recognized as a woman? The very small number of transsexuals also support the more rigorous medical and psychological testing which is there for the safety of women (because they also are aware that women and transsexuals are two distinct types of people).
However, let's say we give your alleged provable science the benefit of the doubt, then I have a solution! If this is something which as you suggest can be definitively proven then the obvious solution is to test the brains of every person who claims to be trans and have these characteristics be a part of the transition process. Y'know, just to make sure other people aren't taking advantage of hard-fought rights in order to feed their fetishes. There would still have to be an element of choice for everyone, but if such a thing is real then surely that's a good way of gatekeeping the people with genuine body dyphoria from others.
Because such a thing does not account for those who detransition.
And more importantly, if these people's brains are somehow female then how do you explain the fact that their behavior (particularly their statistical tendency toward violence) correlates with men rather than women? Surely if their minds/thinking was, as you suggest, female then wouldn't it make sense to presume their actual behavior would be demonstrably in line with other females and not males? I'd love to see an explanation accounting for the difference.
Also, as a scientist, I'm sure you're aware that transwomen in particular have denser muscles and bones, more quick-twitch muscles as well as greater lung (and therefore oxygenation) capacity than women so wouldn't you agree that should disqualify them from fair physical competition against women?
And finally, even if every single thing you suggest is true and it is therefore even illogically true of the people without body dysphoria, do you also believe that having such a condition somehow obligates lesbians in particular to ignore any instincts, discomfort and choice and be obligated to date/have sex with them in order to help affirm their identities? Because these womanly people have the distinct tendency toward male aggression when it comes to not only aggression toward lesbians but physical violence when they are refused. Because even if the condition were completely provable it should not determine how another person sees their actual body or their autonomy over their own body and rules of informed consent. Do you think "other lesbians" have the right to make those choices for themselves about what types of intimacy they are comfortable with? Because once again every transsexual I know agrees that women are under no obligation to do so, so are you willing to forego your own right to consent so that you can fulfill the desires of whatever trans person decides it's your job to affirm their identity with your body?
If so maybe we can set up a database of lesbians who are happy to be used like this so they can leave the rest of us alone?
First of all, as a "scientist" do you not think that even if the distinctions in the brains you describe were real, or provable, that does not mean it's true in the case of every person who claims to be trans"gendered". Every actual transsexual I know is furious over the current colonization of their identity. And if there were those distinctions in the mind, wouldn't it apply mainly to those with actual body dysphoria? Not just people who like to wear dresses or get turned on at the thought of being recognized as a woman? The very small number of transsexuals also support the more rigorous medical and psychological testing which is there for the safety of women (because they also are aware that women and transsexuals are two distinct types of people).
However, let's say we give your alleged provable science the benefit of the doubt, then I have a solution! If this is something which as you suggest can be definitively proven then the obvious solution is to test the brains of every person who claims to be trans and have these characteristics be a part of the transition process. Y'know, just to make sure other people aren't taking advantage of hard-fought rights in order to feed their fetishes. There would still have to be an element of choice for everyone, but if such a thing is real then surely that's a good way of gatekeeping the people with genuine body dyphoria from others.
Because such a thing does not account for those who detransition.
And more importantly, if these people's brains are somehow female then how do you explain the fact that their behavior (particularly their statistical tendency toward violence) correlates with men rather than women? Surely if their minds/thinking was, as you suggest, female then wouldn't it make sense to presume their actual behavior would be demonstrably in line with other females and not males? I'd love to see an explanation accounting for the difference.
Also, as a scientist, I'm sure you're aware that transwomen in particular have denser muscles and bones, more quick-twitch muscles as well as greater lung (and therefore oxygenation) capacity than women so wouldn't you agree that should disqualify them from fair physical competition against women?
And finally, even if every single thing you suggest is true and it is therefore even illogically true of the people without body dysphoria, do you also believe that having such a condition somehow obligates lesbians in particular to ignore any instincts, discomfort and choice and be obligated to date/have sex with them in order to help affirm their identities? Because these womanly people have the distinct tendency toward male aggression when it comes to not only aggression toward lesbians but physical violence when they are refused. Because even if the condition were completely provable it should not determine how another person sees their actual body or their autonomy over their own body and rules of informed consent. Do you think "other lesbians" have the right to make those choices for themselves about what types of intimacy they are comfortable with? Because once again every transsexual I know agrees that women are under no obligation to do so, so are you willing to forego your own right to consent so that you can fulfill the desires of whatever trans person decides it's your job to affirm their identity with your body?
If so maybe we can set up a database of lesbians who are happy to be used like this so they can leave the rest of us alone?
I see where you are coming from. I was looking on the part that you put in bold. I didn't mean to imply that. I still think it is important to look at science. Because a lot of times I hear people say: ?ó?Ç?it is simple biology". But is isn't. Biology is not simple and certainly not a subject as complex as gender and sex and sexual orientation. But we should learn from what has happened with homosexuality. There were a lot of people who has suffered and are still suffering unnecessarily. I just wish we wouldn't make the same mistake again.Guest wrote:You called it "the science behind it", so yeah, you much pretty presented it as fact.Guest wrote:Never said there was scientific consensus. I was talking about studies and theories. If someone thinks that this implies scientific consensus then that's on them.Guest wrote:Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Stop acting like there is any scientific consensus on this subject. There are just as many studies showing the opposite. It's all just guesswork at this point, and gender-critical science is actively being suppressed.
For a scientist you really lack critical thinking skills.
So waht's the difference then between lady brain structure and male brain structure? Explain please.Guest wrote:Did I talk about characteristics? No. I said brain STRUCTURE. That has nothing to do with intelligence or misogyny. Are we also going to say that men produce just as much estrogen as women? Because saying women produce more would be misogynistic, wouldn't it? Calling out physical differences is not misogynistic. Using these differences to make judgements about capabilities is what is misogynistic ?»?¥?ÅGuest wrote:How about just accepting that men can have diverse brains, instead of claiming certain brains are male, and certain brains are not male enough. Because what? If a man is not good in math, then he has female brains? That is the kind of misogynistic bullshit they are promoting.Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
And how do you know that all men who have the "lady brain" identify as female? There are plenty effeminate men who identify correctly as male.
Going along with the pretense that they're something other than what they are isn't going to make them feel better about themselves. All the medication and surgeries in the world won't help either. They'll still know the truth.Guest wrote:I see where you are coming from. I was looking on the part that you put in bold. I didn't mean to imply that. I still think it is important to look at science. Because a lot of times I hear people say: ?ó?Ç?it is simple biology". But is isn't. Biology is not simple and certainly not a subject as complex as gender and sex and sexual orientation. But we should learn from what has happened with homosexuality. There were a lot of people who has suffered and are still suffering unnecessarily. I just wish we wouldn't make the same mistake again.Guest wrote:You called it "the science behind it", so yeah, you much pretty presented it as fact.Guest wrote:Never said there was scientific consensus. I was talking about studies and theories. If someone thinks that this implies scientific consensus then that's on them.Guest wrote:Guest wrote:I hope none of you ever complain about homophobes because that would be simply hypocritical. If any of you were straight, that's exactly what you would be. Do I understand how they feel? No, I've never experienced being uncomfortable with my sex. So I listen to what they say and try to educate myself. Something clearly none of you have done. There have been studies showing that their brain structure often correlates more with the sex they identify with rather than the one they were born with. The same has been found with their testosteron receptors. There is also a new theory that epigenetic markers are the reason these alterations appear. But I'm very much aware that you don't care about the science behind it, that discrimination is never okay or that it is frankly none of your business. I'm aware that you'll say that homosexuality is completely different and that those two don't get to be compared. But as you see I just did because from a political standpoint they should be compared. To your point about the military: if the Pentagon and most high officials say there is no reason for a ban, there probably is no reason. Just some religious people showing that with a conservative Supreme Court they can do whatever the F they want.
Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
Stop acting like there is any scientific consensus on this subject. There are just as many studies showing the opposite. It's all just guesswork at this point, and gender-critical science is actively being suppressed.
For a scientist you really lack critical thinking skills.
What should have been done is to eradicate gender roles, so that boys who want to wear dresses don't have to pretend to be women in order to do it, and vice versa for girls who want to wear masculine clothes.
Comparing this to homosexuality just isn't valid. Giving homosexuals rights never took rights away from anyone else. Giving transgenders rights DOES take rights away from women and gays, however. Especially women.
i'll just say this, cis lesbian scientist, neuroplascitity by itself (an objective consensual concept) refutes the pseudoscientific "female/male" brains studies, as the brain is plastic and it molds according to how you live your life, so the reason why TIMs have a "lady" brain and show similar neural patterns found on many women is because they adopt gender stereotypes (femininity) expected and adopted by them, so if i did start to behave like what is socially expected from men and adopted masculine behavior eventually within time my brain would show neural patterns often found on many menGuest wrote:Sincerely, a cis lesbian and scientist who frankly is tired of this transphobic and hypocritical BS.
so i challenge you here to try to refute the concept of neuroplasticity or try to make it not mutually exclusive with your brain "sex" theory, starting with links like these v
https://4thwavenow.com/2015/04/16/neuroplas...house-of-cards/
https://neurosciencenews.com/male-female-br...fferences-3617/
No, I agree that no one is obligated to date anybody. But that goes for every group in society. But that's not what's being talked about in here. On here people of one group are all lumped together and called predators. That's the discrimination I was talking about. Not being attracted is not discrimination. I also have to live with the fact that my straight roommate is not going to date me. If that's the point of discussion: do we have to date transgender people? Then I say no. But you are talking about bathrooms, working in the military and being treated with respect. And things that are being said on here having nothing to do with human decency and respect.Guest wrote:OOh, yay! A "cis" lesbian. I have questions! *cracks knuckles*
First of all, as a "scientist" do you not think that even if the distinctions in the brains you describe were real, or provable, that does not mean it's true in the case of every person who claims to be trans"gendered". Every actual transsexual I know is furious over the current colonization of their identity. And if there were those distinctions in the mind, wouldn't it apply mainly to those with actual body dysphoria? Not just people who like to wear dresses or get turned on at the thought of being recognized as a woman? The very small number of transsexuals also support the more rigorous medical and psychological testing which is there for the safety of women (because they also are aware that women and transsexuals are two distinct types of people).
However, let's say we give your alleged provable science the benefit of the doubt, then I have a solution! If this is something which as you suggest can be definitively proven then the obvious solution is to test the brains of every person who claims to be trans and have these characteristics be a part of the transition process. Y'know, just to make sure other people aren't taking advantage of hard-fought rights in order to feed their fetishes. There would still have to be an element of choice for everyone, but if such a thing is real then surely that's a good way of gatekeeping the people with genuine body dyphoria from others.
Because such a thing does not account for those who detransition.
And more importantly, if these people's brains are somehow female then how do you explain the fact that their behavior (particularly their statistical tendency toward violence) correlates with men rather than women? Surely if their minds/thinking was, as you suggest, female then wouldn't it make sense to presume their actual behavior would be demonstrably in line with other females and not males? I'd love to see an explanation accounting for the difference.
Also, as a scientist, I'm sure you're aware that transwomen in particular have denser muscles and bones, more quick-twitch muscles as well as greater lung (and therefore oxygenation) capacity than women so wouldn't you agree that should disqualify them from fair physical competition against women?
And finally, even if every single thing you suggest is true and it is therefore even illogically true of the people without body dysphoria, do you also believe that having such a condition somehow obligates lesbians in particular to ignore any instincts, discomfort and choice and be obligated to date/have sex with them in order to help affirm their identities? Because these womanly people have the distinct tendency toward male aggression when it comes to not only aggression toward lesbians but physical violence when they are refused. Because even if the condition were completely provable it should not determine how another person sees their actual body or their autonomy over their own body and rules of informed consent. Do you think "other lesbians" have the right to make those choices for themselves about what types of intimacy they are comfortable with? Because once again every transsexual I know agrees that women are under no obligation to do so, so are you willing to forego your own right to consent so that you can fulfill the desires of whatever trans person decides it's your job to affirm their identity with your body?
If so maybe we can set up a database of lesbians who are happy to be used like this so they can leave the rest of us alone?
To your point about proving their identity. I didn't allege that. I was talking about ?ó?Ç?correlation" and ?ó?Ç?often". If we are going down that path, none of us can actually prove their homosexuality either.
When it comes to sporting events I think it is important to look at when transition started to make sure that precious development of male anatomy is not an advantage. To me this seems like a case to case decision. If Jess (is that her name?) would now become an athlete, would you say that she has advantage? Because she has started puberty blockers and female hormones early.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: diotima1, Google [Bot] and 621 guests