Gentleman Jack (HBO)

[Guest]

Did she hurt her?

30 June 1837

Began gravely with the assurance that A- should have no trouble with me, she had only to do as she liked – she began crying. I changed my manner, said all this was ridiculous. She wanted a good whipping and I got her right. I told her I must buy a rod, and, in truth, I must not indulge her too much.

No. It was a joke (in bad taste, sure, but a joke) to release the tension after Ann had left Anne a note the day before saying that she wanted to leave her. Now that it seems like she didn't mean it because she started crying when Anne basically said "okay, go", Anne changed her manner (she was "grave" before), said this was all ridiculous (them breaking up) and made that bad joke. The change in manner goes from grave to jokey, it's just that the joke is bad (to us). That's what it reads to me. If people read the diaries more closely, you'd find so many instances of kindness from Anne to Ann. She genuinely tried to take care of her, even if she did complain in her diary at times. She would never psychically hurt her, imo.

[Guest]

Do you think Ann will tell Anne about the proposal that happened? Anyone know how this happened in the diaries?

[Guest]

Do you think Ann will tell Anne about the proposal that happened? Anyone know how this happened in the diaries?

In the diaries the guy didn't go as far as proposing, though he seemed to be testing the waters towards that when he visited. Anne knew because she was home that day, it was two months before the Mariana visit. The Ann(e)s decide to not receive hm if he shows up again.

October 25, 1834:

About 2 p.m. Mr. James Ingham called on Adney for 1/4 hour or 20 minutes – she very dignified in her manner. Thinks he would not much like his visit he probably came to make her an offer if he had dared said his brother and his wife were coming to call told A- [Adney] they must not be admitted nor Mr. James I- [Ingham] anymore both of us indignant and agreed –

https://insearchofannwalker.com/anne-li ... ober-1834/

[Guest]

What is the meaning of "Adney" nickname?
And do we know how AW called Anne? Altough, when she say "Anne...", it melts my heart, it is so gentle and tender.
I wish there was more Ann Walker in second season.

[Guest]

Just watched Episode 4... is anyone else disgusted with Anne cheating on Ann with that highly unattractive and venereal disease infested Marianne?

The writers are not endearing us to the main character with her despicable behavior. I know they’re trying to make it like a soap opera, but the reason we fell in love with the series was the love between Anne and Ann... now it has been sullied for me.

Many of us had that reaction after having watched that episode. You're not alone. I was so upset as well and hated Anne after. It was hard to accept. Still not fully there. I only watch Anne and Ann scenes since then. Might rewatch the entire series 2 after it ends, except for episode 4. Never rewatching that, except for Ann scenes.

Some writers said she didn't cheat on A, and others said she slept with Marianne a lot of times. Another writer said she just fingered Can someone tell me the truth?

[Guest]

What is the meaning of "Adney" nickname?
And do we know how AW called Anne? Altough, when she say "Anne...", it melts my heart, it is so gentle and tender.
I wish there was more Ann Walker in second season.

This keeps getting asked. NOBODY KNOWS WHERE "ADNEY" CAME FROM. Even the show makes a joke about this.

Ann called Anne "dearest" in her diary. Plus there's an entry from Anne's diary where Ann called her "pony". Anne also called Ann "my love" and "little one" at times.

Some writers said she didn't cheat on A, and others said she slept with Marianne a lot of times. Another writer said she just fingered Can someone tell me the truth?

After she married Ann, Anne fingered her one time during the visit we saw in the show. That was it. The show changed it to tribbing, but it was a "parting grubble" and Anne felt terrible about it even right as she was doing it.

[Guest]

What is the meaning of "Adney" nickname?
And do we know how AW called Anne? Altough, when she say "Anne...", it melts my heart, it is so gentle and tender.
I wish there was more Ann Walker in second season.

This keeps getting asked. NOBODY KNOWS WHERE "ADNEY" CAME FROM. Even the show makes a joke about this.

Ann called Anne "dearest" in her diary. Plus there's an entry from Anne's diary where Ann called her "pony". Anne also called Ann "my love" and "little one" at times.

Some writers said she didn't cheat on A, and others said she slept with Marianne a lot of times. Another writer said she just fingered Can someone tell me the truth?

After she married Ann, Anne fingered her one time during the visit we saw in the show. That was it. The show changed it to tribbing, but it was a "parting grubble" and Anne felt terrible about it even right as she was doing it.

I wish they'd erased that from the show. Straight writers erased Duncan, Newton, and Chopin's sexuality, but they can't erase the cheating. They changed a lot of things. Anne never drank a beer from a servant, and she always trashed the maids.  Ann deserves better. 

[guest]

Did she hurt her?

30 June 1837

Began gravely with the assurance that A- should have no trouble with me, she had only to do as she liked – she began crying. I changed my manner, said all this was ridiculous. She wanted a good whipping and I got her right. I told her I must buy a rod, and, in truth, I must not indulge her too much.

OMG... Is that true? I'd never thought something like that about AW? Strange... Is it kind of s/m sex or she liked to punish herself for something?

No. Not everything that is written is meant to be taken literally. Just like expressions we have today. Good lord

[Guest]

What is the meaning of "Adney" nickname?
And do we know how AW called Anne? Altough, when she say "Anne...", it melts my heart, it is so gentle and tender.
I wish there was more Ann Walker in second season.

This keeps getting asked. NOBODY KNOWS WHERE "ADNEY" CAME FROM. Even the show makes a joke about this.

Ann called Anne "dearest" in her diary. Plus there's an entry from Anne's diary where Ann called her "pony". Anne also called Ann "my love" and "little one" at times.

Some writers said she didn't cheat on A, and others said she slept with Marianne a lot of times. Another writer said she just fingered Can someone tell me the truth?

After she married Ann, Anne fingered her one time during the visit we saw in the show. That was it. The show changed it to tribbing, but it was a "parting grubble" and Anne felt terrible about it even right as she was doing it.

I wish they'd erased that from the show. Straight writers erased Duncan, Newton, and Chopin's sexuality, but they can't erase the cheating. They changed a lot of things. Anne never drank a beer from a servant, and she always trashed the maids.  Ann deserves better. 

I'm okay with it being on the show, it's the how that I didn't like. It could've even happened off screen. The whole point of it in the diaries, what you take away from it (or at least I do), is that Anne feels really regretful about it and is really ready to move on from Mariana and resents that Mariana worked so hard to make her fall. Yet the show erases all the quotes from the diary that make all of this so clear. Anne even says that she thought she would give Mariana "a parting grubble" but she should've have done it, iirc. Doesn't even imply it, says it outright. We've had Anne talk about her bowels to the camera and read a full entry at the beginning of an episode in voice over while she writes it, but we couldn't see/hear her writing THAT. Then you have Anne Choma saying this just now:



Moment of closure? I've seen more than one person walk away from that episode thinking the opposite, even people who are pro Ann(e)s. I swear, there hasn't been a single time when the people connected to a show I'm following are not completely full of shit and/or seemingly delusional and/or completely willing to lie to your face.

[Guest]

What is the meaning of "Adney" nickname?
And do we know how AW called Anne? Altough, when she say "Anne...", it melts my heart, it is so gentle and tender.
I wish there was more Ann Walker in second season.

This keeps getting asked. NOBODY KNOWS WHERE "ADNEY" CAME FROM. Even the show makes a joke about this.

Ann called Anne "dearest" in her diary. Plus there's an entry from Anne's diary where Ann called her "pony". Anne also called Ann "my love" and "little one" at times.

Some writers said she didn't cheat on A, and others said she slept with Marianne a lot of times. Another writer said she just fingered Can someone tell me the truth?

After she married Ann, Anne fingered her one time during the visit we saw in the show. That was it. The show changed it to tribbing, but it was a "parting grubble" and Anne felt terrible about it even right as she was doing it.

I wish they'd erased that from the show. Straight writers erased Duncan, Newton, and Chopin's sexuality, but they can't erase the cheating. They changed a lot of things. Anne never drank a beer from a servant, and she always trashed the maids.  Ann deserves better. 

I'm okay with it being on the show, it's the how that I didn't like. It could've even happened off screen. The whole point of it in the diaries, what you take away from it (or at least I do), is that Anne feels really regretful about it and is really ready to move on from Mariana and resents that Mariana worked so hard to make her fall. Yet the show erases all the quotes from the diary that make all of this so clear. Anne even says that she thought she would give Mariana "a parting grubble" but she should've have done it, iirc. Doesn't even imply it, says it outright. We've had Anne talk about her bowels to the camera and read a full entry at the beginning of an episode in voice over while she writes it, but we couldn't see/hear her writing THAT. Then you have Anne Choma saying this just now:



Moment of closure? I've seen more than one person walk away from that episode thinking the opposite, even people who are pro Ann(e)s. I swear, there hasn't been a single time when the people connected to a show I'm following are not completely full of shit and/or seemingly delusional and/or completely willing to lie to your face.

qmta * shouldn't have done it. Anyway, here's the passage for those who haven't seen it

M- began kissing me and we got into such tonguing warm work that she got excited. I kept my hands over her clothes and my arms decently around her till the right [hand] wandered to queer, outside, till I took up her petticoats and put it to her and I gave her a thorough grubbling. I think she will have her cousin for it. I certainly felt oddish, but no wish to be near her myself, though she said in the midst, “can you not come near to me for a minute or two”. I made no reply but went on never opening my eyes. She asked if I loved her; I merely said yes. When I’d look at her it was in silence, neither as if ashamed nor as if attendrie nor caring much. I was grave and silent. She said she was better and hoped I should have a good night. What is the meaning of all this? Can this be the conduct of a pure minded virtuous woman! I despise it. She has tried all ways to upset me. I have done what I have done, but she shall never gain more nor ever. I hope a repetition even of this. I could have done without it, but somehow, I thought [to] gratify her with one parting grubble. I ought not to have been, but I will try to turn it to some good account by telling her I shall show her letters and by keeping out of the way. My respect for her is gone.

[Guest]

What is the meaning of "Adney" nickname?
And do we know how AW called Anne? Altough, when she say "Anne...", it melts my heart, it is so gentle and tender.
I wish there was more Ann Walker in second season.

This keeps getting asked. NOBODY KNOWS WHERE "ADNEY" CAME FROM. Even the show makes a joke about this.

Ann called Anne "dearest" in her diary. Plus there's an entry from Anne's diary where Ann called her "pony". Anne also called Ann "my love" and "little one" at times.

Some writers said she didn't cheat on A, and others said she slept with Marianne a lot of times. Another writer said she just fingered Can someone tell me the truth?

After she married Ann, Anne fingered her one time during the visit we saw in the show. That was it. The show changed it to tribbing, but it was a "parting grubble" and Anne felt terrible about it even right as she was doing it.

I wish they'd erased that from the show. Straight writers erased Duncan, Newton, and Chopin's sexuality, but they can't erase the cheating. They changed a lot of things. Anne never drank a beer from a servant, and she always trashed the maids.  Ann deserves better. 

I'm okay with it being on the show, it's the how that I didn't like. It could've even happened off screen. The whole point of it in the diaries, what you take away from it (or at least I do), is that Anne feels really regretful about it and is really ready to move on from Mariana and resents that Mariana worked so hard to make her fall. Yet the show erases all the quotes from the diary that make all of this so clear. Anne even says that she thought she would give Mariana "a parting grubble" but she should've have done it, iirc. Doesn't even imply it, says it outright. We've had Anne talk about her bowels to the camera and read a full entry at the beginning of an episode in voice over while she writes it, but we couldn't see/hear her writing THAT. Then you have Anne Choma saying this just now:



Moment of closure? I've seen more than one person walk away from that episode thinking the opposite, even people who are pro Ann(e)s. I swear, there hasn't been a single time when the people connected to a show I'm following are not completely full of shit and/or seemingly delusional and/or completely willing to lie to your face.

Sensitivity and respect? She must be kidding. That episode was a mockery of Ann and her relationship with Anne. Remember when Anne was reading Ann's letter out loud? That was horrible. Remember the lying to Ann? The cheating? These people are a joke.

[Guest]

I also can't forgive Anne for cheating on Ann. I was so sad to see it. So sorry for dear Ann, I really love her.
And that scene with M was nothing special to me. Actually it was ugly. Nothing even explicit, I mean - what are they doing? Is it fingering or tribbing? It was a stupid scene.

[Guest]

I don't get it? Why didn't they just make Mariana chase and and Anne reject her? They miss out so many other aspects from the diaries.

[Guest]

I also can't forgive Anne for cheating on Ann. I was so sad to see it. So sorry for dear Ann, I really love her.
And that scene with M was nothing special to me. Actually it was ugly. Nothing even explicit, I mean - what are they doing? Is it fingering or tribbing? It was a stupid scene.

I am really curious if Ann do find out that Anne cheat on her. She is well aware of something has been going on with M as the last episode says “another Mrs Lawton or another Tib” but I would love to see confrontation scene between them.

Also we have 2 episode left and I want to see that Anne finally realizes that she is in love with Ann not scared that she will leave her…

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

[Guest]

Go tell her you are not satisfied with it. They need to know. IF and that's a big if, we get a season 3 Sally needs to know not to ignore such important parts of the diaries. This Choma chick adores Mariana, she talked to Sally about it and clearly had a huge influence on how this episode would be written.

[Guest]

I don’t trust Sally, never have, never will.
The fact that she listens to people like this woman to write episodes…
I wonder who pushed for episode 4 to be written like that, so disrespectful. One episode that could have been used to actually do something better with such a weak season.

[Guest]

If they were in the 21st century, Marianne would still be ashamed to be seen with Anne. After all, she didn't care about money but about keeping social appearances. She cheated on Charles with a man, but some girls insist she wasn't with Anne because of homophobia. 
Ann would actually enjoy being a lesbian in the UK and adopting or having a child via IFV. The difference is that she would have found a woman who actually appreciates her. Anne would be a liberal Tory or a conservative centrist.

[Guest]

Go tell her you are not satisfied with it. They need to know. IF and that's a big if, we get a season 3 Sally needs to know not to ignore such important parts of the diaries. This Choma chick adores Mariana, she talked to Sally about it and clearly had a huge influence on how this episode would be written.

I will. Obviously I don’t want to come across disrespectfully, but I think it’s worth lending our opinion if it can have an effect on s3 … should that happen.

[Guest]

[Guest]

I don’t trust Sally, never have, never will.
The fact that she listens to people like this woman to write episodes…
I wonder who pushed for episode 4 to be written like that, so disrespectful. One episode that could have been used to actually do something better with such a weak season.

I wonder is Sally is just trolling us all?

[Guest]

Wow all the butthurt fans after I said my opinion. Come back me up.

[Guest]

Sally hates femme beautiful women. Marianne was a 6. AW was a 10.

[Guest]

Go tell her you are not satisfied with it. They need to know. IF and that's a big if, we get a season 3 Sally needs to know not to ignore such important parts of the diaries. This Choma chick adores Mariana, she talked to Sally about it and clearly had a huge influence on how this episode would be written.

I don't know enough about Choma, so maybe she is a Mariana fan. But I did lose any trust I had in her with this dumbass tweet



There are Anne Lister Code breakers on twitter who I would trust more than her as consultants to Sally. I also think Sally needs a cowriter for this. A screenwriter with experience who is not an Anne Lister nerd, who can put him or herself in the shoes of the audience and help Sally create a DRAMA that entertains the average people. It's shocking how boring and long all that shit about coal and politics is. I get adding them, it's the HOW that's insufferable. I've seen some of Sally's other stuff, she should know why those plots/scenes are boring. She should know better, but she's probably too close to the material because she's a huge AL nerd, and too overwhelmed by all the details that the diaries have.

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

I feel uncomfortable tweeting people directly, but I might do it under the gentleman jack tag. Plus, you know the "fans" will attack anyone who says anything overtly negative, even if the things you say are the same things that they want deep down. It's always like this in every fandom, until they kill their fave and then it's gloves off.

[Guest]

You can be married and in love with someone and still have passionate sex

They say Ann's going to be getting drunk soon? Maybe she'll get freaky too?

This is the last hope of a sex scene we have, at least from the promos (and they've spoiled all the other ones).



The upside is that Ann seems to be the instigator, which is probably why we've assumed she's a little drunk. She seems to be the instigator and Anne seems a bit amused. Sophie and Suranne have both mentioned drunk Ann, but it hasn't happened yet.

The downside is that they will just cut away to pigs or something else unpleasant way too soon, like they always do. At this point I will even take a post sex moment, just them spent afterwards or something. Something! But I doubt we'll get that either.

Yes, they're finally going to recreate the night that Ann describes in her diary. They had loud sex and kept the bed squeaking till the point where the people next to them got scared. Then Anne put the mattress on the floor and they kept having sex till they fell asleep. Ann was a good lover. 

She had a weak spine and still managed to do weird sex positions. She sat on Anne's knees, had her head on the bead but her feet on the chair. Fanfic writers don't do her justice. She was like Queen Elizabeth II.

I'm trying to imagine this position... Can someone explain it to me, please?

[Guest]

Wow all the butthurt fans after I said my opinion. Come back me up.

Whoops.

[purple2011]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

It may be why you watch but respectfully it’s not mine…

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

Da, What on earth?

The creators have an obligation to write good episodes. If they don't the show will lose viewers and will get cancelled. I don't think it is unfair for some people to wish we had more Ann/Anne content especially after they made so much in series one.

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

Da. It's just a different opinion? We don't have to like everything about the show, do we?

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

Da. It's just a different opinion? We don't have to like everything about the show, do we?

Apparently we have to 100% like everything Sally writes otherwise we hate the show, there is no middle ground allowed. Your post will probably disappear soon.

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

Da. It's just a different opinion? We don't have to like everything about the show, do we?

Apparently we have to 100% like everything Sally writes otherwise we hate the show, there is no middle ground allowed. Your post will probably disappear soon.

It happenes in every fandom. I'm a big fan of this show but there's just some things I don't like. Doesn't mean I hate it. Also doesn't mean it's getting cancelled because there are fans who were upset about episode 4 or lack of Ann(e)s.

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

Da, What on earth?

The creators have an obligation to write good episodes. If they don't the show will lose viewers and will get cancelled. I don't think it is unfair for some people to wish we had more Ann/Anne content especially after they made so much in series one.

The show started losing viewers the moment they made Anne cheat on Ann with Marianne. Sally changed a lot of things but chose to keep that scene and even made Marianne a more important character. If she wanted to talk about Marianne and Anne's love, she should have made a show based on her younger years.
The show should have ended in S1. Even conservative viewers emphasized it with her and liked the show. Even liberals are mad at the show. And we can't even use it as a reference for healthy lesbian relationships in the media. Now straight girls can say my favorite straight ship was unhealthy, but at least the dumb male character didn't cheat.

[soccergrl]

If we do nothing else in this thread, can we at least try to get names right lol. Any Anne is a Lister, any Ann is a Walker. Mariana is a vastly different person than Marian, especially to Anne. Trying to figure out some of these posts is like trying to read the diaries and sometimes I like to read this thread after some drinks. Help a girl out here!

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

Da, What on earth?

The creators have an obligation to write good episodes. If they don't the show will lose viewers and will get cancelled. I don't think it is unfair for some people to wish we had more Ann/Anne content especially after they made so much in series one.

The show started losing viewers the moment they made Anne cheat on Ann with Marianne. Sally changed a lot of things but chose to keep that scene and even made Marianne a more important character. If she wanted to talk about Marianne and Anne's love, she should have made a show based on her younger years.
The show should have ended in S1. Even conservative viewers emphasized it with her and liked the show. Even liberals are mad at the show. And we can't even use it as a reference for healthy lesbian relationships in the media. Now straight girls can say my favorite straight ship was unhealthy, but at least the dumb male character didn't cheat.

No they didn't, was only good episode so far, Anne & Ann have been as dull as dishwater. This is what happens after a happy ending. How boring would it be watching Ann pottering about painting all day, while waiting for Anne to speedily return home for sex. If you want that write a fan fiction about it to keep yourself entertained.

On another note scrolling through thread all the Sophie abuse because she dared to be pregnant, it's not a crime. Found it laughable someone even suggested she signed contract agreeing she couldn't get pregnant while making, however many seasons. What next march her off for abortion if she broke the clause .

[Guest]

Two big ifs: if we don’t see Ann/Anne become a major priority for the next two episodes, and if we get a S3, I think we should take to Twitter and politely explain that the real reason we watch is for their relationship.

The creators have no obligation to deliver us a show customized to our wants. And they also have a right to take creative liberties with the source material. Demanding specific content is immature. If you really don't like choices they've made, just stop watching.

God, the aggressive policing here. People like you make the forum such unpleasant place to be. Jump off.

[Guest]

15 November 1839

Incurred a cross last night thinking of the princess.

[Guest]

30 May 1839

I incurred a cross sometime after getting into bed thinking of A- and she snoring by me.

[Guest]

15 November 1839

Incurred a cross last night thinking of the princess.

26 december 1838

Incurred a cross last night thinking of M-, the only thing the thought of her is good for.

[Guest]

30 May 1839

I incurred a cross sometime after getting into bed thinking of A- and she snoring by me.

Anne was such a character.

[Guest]

If we do nothing else in this thread, can we at least try to get names right lol. Any Anne is a Lister, any Ann is a Walker. Mariana is a vastly different person than Marian, especially to Anne. Trying to figure out some of these posts is like trying to read the diaries and sometimes I like to read this thread after some drinks. Help a girl out here!

Oh stop. Some people have dyslexia, are casual viewers, have English as a second language or maybe they just made a mistake. It's not a big deal. Don't drink so much.

[Guest]

Did she hurt her?

30 June 1837

Began gravely with the assurance that A- should have no trouble with me, she had only to do as she liked – she began crying. I changed my manner, said all this was ridiculous. She wanted a good whipping and I got her right. I told her I must buy a rod, and, in truth, I must not indulge her too much.

No. It was a joke (in bad taste, sure, but a joke) to release the tension after Ann had left Anne a note the day before saying that she wanted to leave her. Now that it seems like she didn't mean it because she started crying when Anne basically said "okay, go", Anne changed her manner (she was "grave" before), said this was all ridiculous (them breaking up) and made that bad joke. The change in manner goes from grave to jokey, it's just that the joke is bad (to us). That's what it reads to me. If people read the diaries more closely, you'd find so many instances of kindness from Anne to Ann. She genuinely tried to take care of her, even if she did complain in her diary at times. She would never psychically hurt her, imo.

DA What, in your exceedingly optimistic view, does this bit mean:

...I got her right...

[Guest]

Did she hurt her?

30 June 1837

Began gravely with the assurance that A- should have no trouble with me, she had only to do as she liked – she began crying. I changed my manner, said all this was ridiculous. She wanted a good whipping and I got her right. I told her I must buy a rod, and, in truth, I must not indulge her too much.

No. It was a joke (in bad taste, sure, but a joke) to release the tension after Ann had left Anne a note the day before saying that she wanted to leave her. Now that it seems like she didn't mean it because she started crying when Anne basically said "okay, go", Anne changed her manner (she was "grave" before), said this was all ridiculous (them breaking up) and made that bad joke. The change in manner goes from grave to jokey, it's just that the joke is bad (to us). That's what it reads to me. If people read the diaries more closely, you'd find so many instances of kindness from Anne to Ann. She genuinely tried to take care of her, even if she did complain in her diary at times. She would never psychically hurt her, imo.

DA What, in your exceedingly optimistic view, does this bit mean:

...I got her right...

That she understood Ann.

[Guest]

Did she hurt her?

30 June 1837

Began gravely with the assurance that A- should have no trouble with me, she had only to do as she liked – she began crying. I changed my manner, said all this was ridiculous. She wanted a good whipping and I got her right. I told her I must buy a rod, and, in truth, I must not indulge her too much.

No. It was a joke (in bad taste, sure, but a joke) to release the tension after Ann had left Anne a note the day before saying that she wanted to leave her. Now that it seems like she didn't mean it because she started crying when Anne basically said "okay, go", Anne changed her manner (she was "grave" before), said this was all ridiculous (them breaking up) and made that bad joke. The change in manner goes from grave to jokey, it's just that the joke is bad (to us). That's what it reads to me. If people read the diaries more closely, you'd find so many instances of kindness from Anne to Ann. She genuinely tried to take care of her, even if she did complain in her diary at times. She would never psychically hurt her, imo.

DA What, in your exceedingly optimistic view, does this bit mean:

...I got her right...

That she understood Ann.

Sounds more 1990s, than 1840s to me but whatever...

Still think the whipping and rod references sound... fucking awful.

[Guest]

Did she hurt her?

30 June 1837

Began gravely with the assurance that A- should have no trouble with me, she had only to do as she liked – she began crying. I changed my manner, said all this was ridiculous. She wanted a good whipping and I got her right. I told her I must buy a rod, and, in truth, I must not indulge her too much.

No. It was a joke (in bad taste, sure, but a joke) to release the tension after Ann had left Anne a note the day before saying that she wanted to leave her. Now that it seems like she didn't mean it because she started crying when Anne basically said "okay, go", Anne changed her manner (she was "grave" before), said this was all ridiculous (them breaking up) and made that bad joke. The change in manner goes from grave to jokey, it's just that the joke is bad (to us). That's what it reads to me. If people read the diaries more closely, you'd find so many instances of kindness from Anne to Ann. She genuinely tried to take care of her, even if she did complain in her diary at times. She would never psychically hurt her, imo.

DA What, in your exceedingly optimistic view, does this bit mean:

...I got her right...

Da, That she understood Ann.

[Guest]

15 November 1839

Incurred a cross last night thinking of the princess.

Which princess?

This was when she was with Ann, right? Or, is Ann the 'princess'?

I find it interesting that Lister was never really that popular until Surname started playing her and Wainright writing her. Not after that BBC 2 (3?) parter a few years back... not after the Sue Perkins documentary... and certainly not after the megafan's books (the one who went through so many of the diaries).

Amazing what a decent drama can do really.

[Guest]

Did she hurt her?

No. It was a joke (in bad taste, sure, but a joke) to release the tension after Ann had left Anne a note the day before saying that she wanted to leave her. Now that it seems like she didn't mean it because she started crying when Anne basically said "okay, go", Anne changed her manner (she was "grave" before), said this was all ridiculous (them breaking up) and made that bad joke. The change in manner goes from grave to jokey, it's just that the joke is bad (to us). That's what it reads to me. If people read the diaries more closely, you'd find so many instances of kindness from Anne to Ann. She genuinely tried to take care of her, even if she did complain in her diary at times. She would never psychically hurt her, imo.

DA What, in your exceedingly optimistic view, does this bit mean:

...I got her right...

That she understood Ann.

Sounds more 1990s, than 1840s to me but whatever...

Still think the whipping and rod references sound... fucking awful.

What's with the whatever? Are we not falling for your repeated attempts at painting Anne Lister as a domestic abuser? I'm pretty sure people in the 1840s also had a sense of humor and said things in jest. Yes, you think it sounds awful which is understandable. I feel that some people take Anne's diaries far too literally at times and often forget that it was Anne's private journal where she wrote all her deepest thoughts good and bad. She didn't know people would read it so we should be aware of that context when reading.

[Guest]

15 November 1839

Incurred a cross last night thinking of the princess.

Which princess?

This was when she was with Ann, right? Or, is Ann the 'princess'?

I find it interesting that Lister was never really that popular until Surname started playing her and Wainright writing her. Not after that BBC 2 (3?) parter a few years back... not after the Sue Perkins documentary... and certainly not after the megafan's books (the one who went through so many of the diaries).

Amazing what a decent drama can do really.

They met a Russian princess during their last trip. Anne was clearly crushing on her, but nothing ever happened and Anne and Ann eventually kept traveling.

The show helped uncover Anne's real story because it brought volunteers to decode and transcribe the diaries. So a TON of stuff has come to light in the last three years, and a lot of it is surprising. Ann Walker, for example, is so different than people always assumed. Much more stubborn, she managed her own estates, had a difficult temper and was far from some weakling that Anne took advantage of, even though she did struggle with depression on and off.

[Guest]

15 November 1839

Incurred a cross last night thinking of the princess.

Which princess?

This was when she was with Ann, right? Or, is Ann the 'princess'?

I find it interesting that Lister was never really that popular until Surname started playing her and Wainright writing her. Not after that BBC 2 (3?) parter a few years back... not after the Sue Perkins documentary... and certainly not after the megafan's books (the one who went through so many of the diaries).

Amazing what a decent drama can do really.

[Guest]

15 November 1839

Incurred a cross last night thinking of the princess.

Which princess?

This was when she was with Ann, right? Or, is Ann the 'princess'?

I find it interesting that Lister was never really that popular until Surname started playing her and Wainright writing her. Not after that BBC 2 (3?) parter a few years back... not after the Sue Perkins documentary... and certainly not after the megafan's books (the one who went through so many of the diaries).

Amazing what a decent drama can do really.

LOL

Thanks, but no thanks though.

I prefer this one:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... raphy.html